Posts by leaving

35

June JW Broadcast - Jehovah's & Jesus' names Are Interchangeable!

by The Searcher in

mr. geoffrey jackson hosts this month's propaganda-fest, and uses a favourite catchphrase of the org - "by extension" - to get out of the dead-end which the scriptwriters had put him in.

he quotes matthew 10:22 - "and you will be objects of hatred by all people on account of my [jesus'] name; but he that has endured to the end is the one that will be saved.".

mr. jackson knows only too well that probably no j.w.

leaving_quietly

Absolutely, johnamos.

Understand that I am not disputing the use of the name "Jehovah" (though I'd prefer just YHWH or Yahweh or even Jahveh (the last two admittedly closer to the original pronunciation than "Jehovah", but I digress...), nor am I disputing all that Christ represents, that of being God's son, being anointed BY God, being exalted BY God, or anything like that. My point is simply to say: there is a balance that most of us are guilty of, that of favoring Jehovah VS Jesus instead of, more properly, favoring Jehovah AND Jesus equally. Remember, God may take out a people for HIS name, but those same people are declared righteous in Jesus' name with God's spirit.. (1 Cor 6:11).

BTW, your last passage reminded me of another:

"Exercise faith in God; exercise faith also in me" John 14:1

I like that you pointed out what the name of Jesus means "YHWH is salvation". But it does come full circle in the Bible. True, YHWH is salvation, but how?

"If we accept the witness of men, the witness of God is greater. Because this is the witness God gives, the witness that he has given about his Son. 10 The person putting his faith in the Son of God has the witness within himself. The person not having faith in God has made him a liar, because he has not put his faith in the witness given by God concerning his Son. 11 And this is the witness, that God gave us everlasting life, and this life is in his Son. 12 The one who has the Son has this life; the one who does not have the Son of God does not have this life." 1 John 5:9-12

My point is, it should not be a Jehovah vs. Jesus thing as so many make it out to be. God's plan for salvation is by/through is Son. They are BOTH necessary. And the scriptures make it very clear that BOTH of their names are important.

Strangely, what we don't find in the NT / Greek scriptures is any argumentation about whose name is more important. What we do find is what I've been saying. Both are important.

35

June JW Broadcast - Jehovah's & Jesus' names Are Interchangeable!

by The Searcher in

mr. geoffrey jackson hosts this month's propaganda-fest, and uses a favourite catchphrase of the org - "by extension" - to get out of the dead-end which the scriptwriters had put him in.

he quotes matthew 10:22 - "and you will be objects of hatred by all people on account of my [jesus'] name; but he that has endured to the end is the one that will be saved.".

mr. jackson knows only too well that probably no j.w.

leaving_quietly

Actually, both johnamos and Searcher have a point. Here's the issue the way I see it:

The WT organization gets mad at "Christendom" because, by and large, they DON'T exalt the name Jehovah (or Yahweh or YHWH)

"Christendom" gets mad at the WT organization because, by and large, they DON'T exalt the name Jesus (or Yashua or Yeshua or whatever other pronunciation there is)

And, they're both right. And they're both wrong.

The WT organization makes such a HUGE deal out of the name "Jehovah" that they forget this COMMANDMENT:

"Indeed, this is his commandment: that we have faith in the name of his Son Jesus Christ and love one another, just as he gave us a commandment." - 1 John 3:23

And it's something people would be judged on:

"Whoever does not exercise faith has been judged already, because he has not exercised faith in the name of the only-begotten Son of God." - John 3:18

"I write you these things so that you may know that you have life everlasting, you who put your faith in the name of the Son of God." - 1 John 5:13

I can't recall the last time the WT organization admonished anyone to have faith in Jesus NAME. Faith 'on the basis of Jesus' sacrifice', yes, but faith in his name? It is a rare thing to see in any publication.

At the same time, as johnamos pointed out, God's name is equally as important. There should be no reason to not exalt both names. But the WT organization says Christ is not to be exalted like that, and that IS the problem. What does the Bible really teach?

"Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him." - John 5:23

"For this very reason, God exalted him to a superior position and kindly gave him the name that is above every other name." - Phil 2:9

(SIDE NOTE: Phil 2:9 is somewhat misleading in the NWT. The phrase"superior position" is not in the Greek. Neither is is the word "other". The correct rendering would be more like "Therefore, also, God highly exalted [or, elevated] him and graciously [or freely, or kindly] granted him the name that is [or, which is] above every name [or, above all names, or, above every kind of name].")

You will notice many times in the NT how Paul gave glory to both, by saying, "God through Christ" or "God through Jesus Christ" or "God through our Lord" or other similar phrasing. The point is that we should not be going to one extreme or the other. Both God AND the Christ are exalted. Both should be recognized. Both names are equally important.

12

Crazy Comments

by humblepotato in

jw
friends

i love the people who go to my congregation.

they are sweet, friendly, and lovable.

(which is one of the things that makes being awake so much easier.

leaving_quietly

I've kept track of a few of them.

Said by an elder in a comment on a WT study about elders as shepherds: "Jehovah is the first shepherd. Jesus is the second shepherd. But they can't do anything without the other shepherds." Oh, really?

Another elder: "Jesus commanded us to not forsake the gathering of ourselves together." Jesus said that???

By a brother: "We get to Jehovah through the elders." Hmm. No, we get to God through Christ.

By a visiting speaker during his public talk: "Demons are homosexual." Picked jaw up from floor on that one.

By an elder: "Christendom doesn't teach the ransom, or teaches the ransom is paid to Satan." Well, which is it? Do they teach it or not? Incidentally, I did research this. The ransom is a primary teaching of Christianity, known as the Ransom Theory of Atonement. One major view (but not the only one) is that the ransom is paid to Satan. Crazy comment, nonetheless.

By a brother in a talk: "Abiathar was high priest, kind of like the governing body today." Oh? I thought Christ was the high priest. Who knew?

12

Ever been on a "snipe hunt"?

by kairos in

jw
friends

if you are a jw, that is.. "there's the kingdom over there!!

""armageddon is near""we're in the last of the last days""we will have three day conventions next year... jehovah willing""the work is speeding up""it's an invisible presence".

snipe hunt.

leaving_quietly

Like telling high school freshmen, "The pool's on the third floor" when there is no pool and no third floor. That one never gets old!

32

WHY DO ONLY A FEW START TO QUESTION DOCTRINE CHANGES AND NOT EVERYONE?

by disillusioned 2 in

there are many on here who state specific changes in wt publications have caused them to start questioning (understandably you would think), and yet the majority don't.

why is it only a few individuals that do this?

curious as to what others think about this.

leaving_quietly

I think more question doctrine than we might imagine. As stated in comments above, many question, yet suppress their feelings. Some have expressed their personal beliefs that not everything is true, but then fall back into the mantra: "Who else does the preaching as Jesus commands? Who else holds out a hope of everlasting life on a paradise earth? Who else at least TRIES to teach the Bible to other people?" Many simply can't see past all of this, which, to be honest, are very, very large incentives to staying in.

I believe JWs by and large DO think, but I believe they are too tired to address any questions they might have. They're kept too busy with various activities (meetings, family worship night, field service, preparing for each meeting (even at a cursory level), videos on the new broadcasting site on an almost daily basis, daily bible reading, daily text, two new WT and one Awake magazine every month, talks, assemblies, CO visits, and so on.) Who has time to do real research? With just living life, it's hard to find the time or energy to do so, so most, like I did for years, suppress any and all questions. Or, they may think the GB is smarter than they are, so must know better. As my wife keeps asking me: "You don't think you're smarter than the Governing Body, do you?"

33

Govening Body and JWN

by John Aquila in

do you think any members of the governing body visit this site-jwn regularly?.

how about the heavies in the organization, like the writers, lawyers, and other who work at headquarters?.

for all we know john aquila could be a member of the gb..

leaving_quietly

I think DOC is right. The recent "new light" about Satan not being Gog of Magog may have been a result of this thread I started two years prior with some of the same reasoning. That's just one example. There's many more.

14

WT started using the internet in 1997, brother said

by StarTrekAngel in

so brohter (not elder or anything but many years active) had to give talk this week.

talk related to how jehovah gives abilities to people thru the spirit.

started off with the mention of how god told moises to build the tent and gave people the abilities to work wood, stone, etc.

leaving_quietly

Perhaps early 1997 contained it as a placeholder. The domain was registered in 1996. But by November, this article appeared in the KM. By then, it was no longer a placeholder.

Good News on the Internet
In our technological age, some people obtain information from electronic sources, including the Internet. So the Society has put on the Internet some accurate information about the beliefs and activities of Jehovah’s Witnesses.

Our Internet Web site has the address http://www.watchtower.org and contains a selection of tracts, brochures, and Watchtower and Awake! articles in English, Chinese (Simplified), German, Russian, and Spanish, as well as in other languages. The publications on this Web site are already available through the congregations and are in use in the ministry. The purpose of our Web site is, not to release new publications, but to make information available to the public in electronic format. There is no need for any individual to prepare Internet pages about Jehovah’s Witnesses, our activities, or our beliefs. Our official site presents accurate information for any who want it.
Although our site has no provision for electronic messages (E-mail), it lists postal addresses of branches around the globe. Thus people can write to obtain more information or to receive personal assistance from Witnesses locally. Feel free to share the above Internet address with any who might be inclined to begin learning Bible truth from this format.

13

587 vs 607: JW sources only

by wifibandit in

the latest jw podcast has inspired me to update the copypasta comment that i post anytime this topic comes up.. i have formatted it to more closely follow the wonderful www.jwfacts.com table.

i have also added a few more links directly to the jw online library.

"evil-merodach reigned two years" w65 1/1 p. 29.

leaving_quietly

@johnamos:

[Jeremiah 25:11 And all this land must become a devastated place, an object of astonishment, and these nations will have to serve the king of Babylon seventy years.”’ 12 “‘And it must occur that when seventy years have been fulfilled I shall call to account against the king of Babylon and against that nation,’ is the utterance of Jehovah,]

Let's look at a different portion of the same verses:
[Jeremiah 25:11 And all this land must become a devastated place, an object of astonishment, and these nations will have to serve the king of Babylon seventy years.”’ 12 “‘And it must occur that when seventy years have been fulfilled I shall call to account against the king of Babylon and against that nation,’ is the utterance of Jehovah,]

And, how Daniel interpreted it:

[Daniel 9:2 in the first year of his reign I, Daniel, discerned by the books the number of years mentioned in the word of Jehovah to Jeremiah the prophet to fulfill the desolation of Jerusalem, namely, 70 years.]

Daniel viewed the 70 years as being "the desolation of Jerusalem." It wasn't servitude alone.

25

Would you like to live for ever on earth?

by fulano in

i was discussing this topic with two friends of mine, ex jws, a few nights ago.

i think it would be boring after a while.

you can't smoke, have to drink with moderation (difficult in europe with all the wines).

leaving_quietly

I absolutely would. But I'm okay knowing I probably won't.

33

A Whole New Watchtower Society (Governing Body 3.0 / Simplified Society)

by FusionTheism in

a whole new watchtower society (governing body 3.0 / simplified society).

i'm not here to attack the governing body, watchtower society, or the jehovah's witnesses (jw) organization.

the bible says there is just "one hope" for christians (ephesians 4:4).

leaving_quietly

Marked for later reading.

Part of the problem, though, is this:

"Watch out for the leaven of the Pharisees." and "A little leaven ferments the whole lump."

Any organization, not just WTBTS, ANY organization that claims to be God's channel, God's mouthpiece, spirit-directed, God's CHOSEN people, must, by definition, be 100% truthful in its doctrines. Why? Very simple: "God...cannot lie." (Titus 1:2)

So, these two possibilities exist:

1. Men were NOT listening to God

2. God lied

If #1 is accurate, then the entire organization cannot be doing God's will because anyone worshipping God "must worship him in spirit and truth." (John 4:24)

If #2, then we're all doomed.

Ok, there's a third possibility:

3. God did NOT choose the WT organization, and is NOT leading / directing them.

I tend to believe #3.

So, it doesn't matter if they START getting things right. The fact that they HAVEN'T up to this point, but insist they have, only proves the untruthfulness of this organization. This equally applies to ANY religion claiming to be the true religion.

Does this mean we who are believers should dismiss out of hand the entire religion? Christ didn't say to do that with the Pharisees. He only said to watch out for their leaven. Each person has the responsibility and obligation to see if what is being taught is truth or not. And that is something Christ commends. To the congregation in Ephesus, he said this: "‘I know your deeds, and your labor and endurance, and that you cannot tolerate bad men, and that you put to the test those who say they are apostles, but they are not, and you found them to be liars." (Rev 2:2) The word "apostle" means "sent forth one". Any who claim to be sent forth from God or Christ to proclaim whatever they proclaim MUST be tested.

If one finds that a religion teaches SOME truth, should we stay with it? I don't think I can answer that question. I can only echo Christ's words: "But whoever stumbles one of these little ones who have faith in me, it would be better for him to have hung around his neck a millstone that is turned by a donkey and to be sunk in the open sea."

EDIT: Let me add that if a religion is teaching that the end is near, Christ was pretty clear on that point: “Look out that you are not misled, for many will come on the basis of my name, saying, ‘I am he,’ and, ‘The due time is near.’ Do not go after them."

leaving_quietly

Posts by leaving_quietly