acsot

Joined

• started 45 topics
• posted 1,347 times   see topics posted on
• send a message

Posts by acsot

• 
  3

  Do they deserve it?

  by ozziepost in

  1. social
  2. physical

  for many years, australian soccer has ben hindered in its progress into each world cup finals by the seeding that fifa imposed on it.

  this has meant that for as long as we all can remember, each campaign ground to a halt (except once) when, after easily winning the oceania group, we had to play countries on the other side of the globe, just for the "right" to get to the finals.

  we've had to play israel, argentina, uruguay, and so on.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  acsot

  As a proud Canadian, I should love hockey. Used to, now though, my sport of preference is SOCCER!!

  Will be watching for Australia!
• 
  13

  What should i Do???

  by Shytears in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  in the past few months i have gotton into another depression,or maybe i have been in one for a long time and now its getting worst,whatever the case is,i cant seem to get out of it...i dont have much help any way,i rarely do anything and when i do get out the house its to go to the doctor or some other thing thats not really fun..... .

  my brother says its my fault im like this,i just wanted to know if its true,can i help it,or not?he said i did this to myself??

  ?i was thinking in what way?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  acsot

  Shytears: Check your e-mail.
• 
  28

  JWs just knocked on my door....

  by LDH in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  ok so i'm on the phone talking to my friend, when i hear a knock so light i wasn't even sure if it was a knock.... (the doorbell, lighted, works just fine).. i open the door.

  two attractive young ladies in their early 20s are standing there, don't even make eye contact.

  one reaches into her bookbag and pulls out the lasts watchtower and asnake magazines and proceeds to ramble incoherently for the next 30 seconds.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  acsot

  What's that proverb? geez, I'm already forgetting (probably not fast enough). "throw your bread upon the waters", you don't know how or where it may fall and do some good. Those girls will think about it, maybe tell others about the former JW they met and how they tried to "reason" with her, and it'll stay in their minds. And stay there, and then, well, you just never know.

  Around 20 years ago James Penton was on a T.V. news program here in Canada. The question alway stuck in my mind: "how could he go back to celebrating holidays and singing "religious" hymns. Well, now I understand.

  I sure hope it doesn't take them 20 years. At least you "planted a seed".
• 
  44

  Where do I go for support???

  by scaredyetresolved in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i would love some support since i am scared and confused, but i don't know where to turn.

  my husband and i are both having our eyes opened wide after years of doubts.

  we have finally read the "apostate literature" over the past few weeks and have checked and rechecked their sources.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  acsot

  Hi and welcome!

  I'm pretty new here myself. Although I can't relate to how to help your children (I'm single), I certainly can relate to what you said about the organization and doubts and seeing the "light". I'm still officially "in good standing", basically because my elderly mother lives with me now and I still attend some meetings so she can get out of the house. I'm basically just waiting things out while she's still with me before I decide on how to sever my ties with the WT, either DA myself or do a fade, or whatever. However, the immense relief I feel in now knowing that it's not me who's at fault for all these feelings (guilt, inadequacy, doubts, never doing enough, not being good enough, yet seeing all the hypocrisy in the organization) more than makes up for the bit of time I spend at the meetings.

  I certainly can relate, however, to what you said:

  we are considering observing secular holidays and beginning to start traditions in our family, but I don't even know how to begin! I feel like I was born this week and I have to learn how to walk, talk, and even feel all over again.

  I've been feeling the exact same way! Where does one start? You'll notice that often people will write things they've been experiencing or feeling that are precisely what you've been going through. It was a real eye-opener and comfort to know that I wasn't alone. I don't get a chance to post often (I'm doing this at work now), but I do manage to read many of the posts others make and find myself sharing the same sentiments and at times the same experiences.

  So I guess many of us are in the same boat, like being in a "life kindergarten", but at least this way we can learn from each other. This is a place where people are allowed to have their own feelings and thoughts and are able to exchange ideas (or fight about ideas ) and it's all okay.

  Others with kids will be able to give you more practical support and advice. I just want to say welcome.
• 
  51

  Believers, why does God need your flattery?

  by IronGland in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  why would an all knowing master of space and time feel the irrepressible need to be adored by mere insects (relatively speaking), and indeed punish them in the most absolute of terms if they fail in this task?

  indeed it makes god seem very human, although rather immaturely so.

  we expect such behavior from schoolyard bullies, megalomaniac dictators and small children who demand adoration from their beaten dogs.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  acsot

  Realist wrote:

  the god of the old testament (jahwe) is the result of a mixture of older tribal gods...thats why many of the stories in genesis are written twice...once you have a masterful god who is creating someting good (the name of this god is elohim). then you have the same story but with a vengeful and incompetent god who screws up things and who kills or puishes people (his name is jahwe --> jehovah).

  I just read an article in MacLean's magazine (a Canadian newsmagazine) which, in its December 9, 2002 issue, discusses Biblical archaeology. Our P.O. "warned" us about this article, so I immediately tried to find it. You can look it up online at:

  http://www.macleans.ca/xta-asp/storyview.asp?viewtype=search&tpl=search_frame&edate=2002/12/

  (I hope I did that right!) What I found fascinating is something along the line of what Realist wrote. The article mentioned above also seems to reiterate that point:

  But what if the word is not to be trusted? And not just some parts, the ones that modern Christians and Jews -- fundamentalists and the Orthodox aside -- have already repudiated. The clearly mythical account of creation in six days, for one, or the miraculous touches in later accounts, like the parting of the Red Sea or the tumbling walls of Jericho.

  Also,

  Much of the older model of scripture-supportive scholarship was a house of cards waiting to fall. It's been 250 years since scholars noticed there seemed to be two strands of narrative running from the very start of Genesis. One referred to the Almighty as Elohim or God, the other as Yahweh or Lord. The former thinks highly of Israel, the northern and larger of the two Israelite kingdoms that eventually arose, while the latter favours the smaller southern realm of Judah. Later, more than 20 other sources were postulated to cover material that didn't seem to come from the first two -- a remarkable development, given that every last one of them is purely theoretical.

  Growing awareness of Bible sources meant a new appreciation of when it was compiled. Passages that favour the southern realm -- like Genesis 49:8, where Jacob sets his son Judah as king over his 11 brothers, founders of the other Israelite tribes -- could only have been written after they had become a reality. Most scholars push that date of composition to the 7th century BCE or later. For one thing, the patriarchal narratives -- the stories about Abraham, Isaac and Jacob -- make constant mention of caravans of camels, an animal not widely used as a beast of burden before then. That means that well over a millennium of Biblical narrative is drawn from oral sources: epic sagas, folk tales, hymns, poetry, even puns and jokes. Little of it is a reliable guide to what actually happened, and the only confirmation is what excavations provide.

  Holy Land archaeology began in the 19th century, and long remained the domain of religious scholars. They came to the Near East seeking support for their beliefs. As the French Dominican Roland de Vaux noted, "if the historical faith of Israel is not founded in history, such faith is erroneous, and therefore, our faith is also." Those early archaeologists thought they were able to place Abraham within a period of urban collapse and a migration of pastoral easterners at about 2100 BCE, just when the Bible said he lived. But subsequent excavations showed the eastern influx didn't actually take place. Attempts to move the patriarchs to other eras produced the same unhappy results. Today even maximalists like Dever have given up hope of establishing Abraham, Isaac or Jacob as credible historical figures.

  For the exodus from slavery in Egypt -- the very heart of Judaism celebrated each Passover (and familiar to millions of Christians, if only from Charlton Heston's portrayal of Moses in The Ten Commandments) -- scholars relied on little more than faith dressed as reasonable presumptions. Many, however inadvertently, simply demonstrated the hold the Exodus story had on their imaginations. "Moses was beyond the power of the human mind to invent," British historian Paul Johnson confidently asserted as late as 1987. Something real must lie behind a story so vividly told, so long entrenched. And besides, adds Hershel Shanks, editor of the prominent Biblical Archaeological Review, no one can prove it didn't happen. Absence of evidence, runs the well-worn historian's mantra, is not evidence of absence.

  But what an absence. Decades of searching the Sinai Peninsula for any trace of 40 years of Israelite wandering has turned up nothing, not a skeleton or campsite, from the period in question -- even though archaeologists have found far older and sketchier remains in the Sinai. Scholars now agree that the exodus -- if it happened -- had to have occurred in the 13th century BCE, which also turns out to have been an era of strong Egyptian border control, complete with records of who was coming and going. As for the traces of ruined Canaanite cities attributed to the Israelite conquest described in the Book of Joshua, the destruction turns out to have occurred at other times.

  Anyway, the whole article was very interesting and eye-opening, IMHO. Maybe I should just post another topic, but it does seem to destroy any fundamentalist leanings towards a literal acceptance of what is in Genesis, including Adam and Eve, and any use of that account to explain what God wants/accepts/needs.

  It's only been about four months since I had my "eyes opened" to the Watchtower's interpretation of things, and already I can't believe I actually accepted a literal interpretation of Genesis with no questions asked.

  As for an explanation of does God need our flattery, if much of Genesis (and Exodus, etc.) is more parable or myth - then those accounts won't enlighten us, nor were they ever meant to.

  And although I am a member of PETA, I agree with NameWithheld's analogy - and it better be only an analogy !

  This is my longest post ever, must be getting the hang of things.
• 
  12

  JW's and the YMCA

  by artful in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  my father and mother (both loyal jws and in their 70s) have recently joined a local ymca for it's fitness facility.

  it seems to me that the wts does not look favorably on this organization, possibly to the point of prohibiting jws from joining it.

  i have searched for information online but to no avail.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  acsot

  In a congregation I used to attend, one of the elders had a real bee in his bonnet about membership in the Y. He'd yammer on about something "seemingly innocent" but which was really a quasi religious/political organization and JWs should have no part in it, yadayadayada. I remember looking up info about the Y and there were some references to it as having backed the war effort (WWII) such as raising funds in local chapters of the Y, etc. These articles went back to the 60's, as I recall. On the other hand, I know some Witnesses locally here (in other congregations) who do belong to the Y.

  As mentioned by NameWithheld, it seems like a "local discretion" category. Depends what the elders are like in your parents' congregation. If they're like the one I mentioned above, they had better keep tight-lipped about where they go for their exercise classes.
• 
  25

  Is Warning re Possible Lawsuit Required?

  by Scully in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this is just a general question for anyone who might have some legal background on the matter.. if (and i expect there will be) an announcement is made to our former congregation that we are "disassociated", can i just go ahead and sue them (individual elders in the congregation) for slander and defamation of character?

  the decision to make the announcement is one that has to go through the body of elders, right??.

  is it necessary, when the elders come calling, to say "i will sue the shirt off your back and the bloomers off your @$$ if you make any announcement that slanders my name or defames my character to anyone"??

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  acsot

  I work with lawyers, and could ask, but they know diddly-squat about the Witnesses, and Quebec is under Civil Code law, not common law as in the rest of Canada.

  However, what about a sympathetic reporter? la James Penton? Describing in detail what disfellowshipping/disassociation really means in the lives of JWs? Also, the doctrinal flip-flops, lack of love, lack of involvement in charity, the inquisitorial nature of JC meetings, etc.

  I don't know if that would work, but I still remember the t.v. news program dealing with the Penton case, and it's been over 20 years since that airs. Also, a newspaper once detailed what happened to a JW in the Montreal area who was disfellowshipped, about the same time, for "apostasy". Very sympathetic to the df'd person.

  I haven't really thought through all the possible ramifications, just throwing this thought out there.
• 
  6

  Did you ever get caught.....

  by freedom96 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  when you were a witness, did you ever get caught at a holiday party?.

  when i was 17, my work had a christmas party.

  there would be gifts, and a good time.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  acsot

  I'm still officially "in", but rather enjoy spying on my fellow dubs for your benefit. In fact, today a JW who works here was very put out with some in her congregation because :

  context: their congregation pioneer supper was held on Friday

  1. An elder and his wife explained the absence of their teen-age children as due to their attending the company's "year-end party".

  2. A sister (elder's wife) regularly attends the office "year-end" party. Since it's called year-end, it's okay. Well, Sister Very Spiritual (former special pioneer, missionary, still very Watchtower-spiritual) starts ranting about them to me here at work. "What about the bad association? That's another reason not to go. You know, one of these days those kids are going to get into trouble and it'll be the parents' fault." I'm thinking, "good thing those kids don't have you as their mother".

  Apparently, tons of dubs go to their office parties. Maybe a lot of them are just tired of the whole WT-thought control and lists of do's and don'ts. More power to them!
• 
  118

  Would some of us be better off as Witnesses?

  by Jerry Bergman in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  i have often wondered if many people would be better off if they stayed witnesses.

  some people i have known have really gone off the deep end after they left the watchtower.

  most all of my family have left now (not due to me as i was cut off from them for years) and many others i know who have left are now bitter atheists or have become pagans and worship stones or new ageers playing with crystals.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  acsot

  I was brought up as a JW, am now in my mid-forties. I cannot really say that we were taught morality - rather we were made to fear immorality, or the WT perception of morality. Don't forget, the WT also imposes its moralistic views on married couples and what they do in private. So, if they don't toe the line, does that make married JW couples immoral?

  There's a huge difference between doing something you've decided on yourself as being the right, loving way to act towards another human being and being dictated to by a huge organization without the benefit of deciding the pros and cons for yourself.
• 
  12

  Worried for step son

  by Yerusalyim in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i've been nursing a concern for my step son, and there ain't much i can do to prevent what's coming, or what i think is coming.

  we're going home to illinois in about a week for christmas.

  sean, my step son, was a jw but is now in classes and expects to be baptized into the catholic church in april 03. here's the hitch.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  acsot

  My God, that's just awful! I'm so sorry - you're showing more compassion and concern for him than his biological father. Was Sean baptized as a JW? He shouldn't have to go through with a judicial hearing. Also, he's not obligated to visit his father if he's nervous about meeting with those jerk elders. I can't believe it. Actually, that's not true, unfortunately I can believe it.