BlueSapphire: Amazing that you should recommend that book! My boss just bought it because she's heard of the author, but didn't have a clue that Dinah is from the Old Testament. After she reads it she told me I could borrow it, otherwise I will definitely get it from the library! Maybe we should start a book club!
Posts by acsot
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28Dinah: what bad association?
by acsot inokay, so i was at the ministry school/service meeting last night (as to why and all that see my answer to blondies watchtower review this week), which actually was not totally horrendous since i brought some essay questions to work on for a university class im taking.
i probably looked so theocratic (hehehe).
so during the service meeting theres a part on bad association, being careful at school, at work, blah blah blah.
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28
Dinah: what bad association?
by acsot inokay, so i was at the ministry school/service meeting last night (as to why and all that see my answer to blondies watchtower review this week), which actually was not totally horrendous since i brought some essay questions to work on for a university class im taking.
i probably looked so theocratic (hehehe).
so during the service meeting theres a part on bad association, being careful at school, at work, blah blah blah.
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acsot
Runningman: that was hysterical, yeah the WTS got it backwards, it was bad association all right, for Shechem.
Cruzan: I had wondered about the same thing but didn't post it. We don't hear about Dinah anymore, so I can just imagine how she was treated afterwards!
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28
Dinah: what bad association?
by acsot inokay, so i was at the ministry school/service meeting last night (as to why and all that see my answer to blondies watchtower review this week), which actually was not totally horrendous since i brought some essay questions to work on for a university class im taking.
i probably looked so theocratic (hehehe).
so during the service meeting theres a part on bad association, being careful at school, at work, blah blah blah.
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acsot
Okay, so I was at the Ministry School/Service meeting last night (as to why and all that see my answer to Blondie’s Watchtower review this week), which actually was not totally horrendous since I brought some essay questions to work on for a university class I’m taking. I probably looked so theocratic™ (hehehe). So during the Service Meeting there’s a part on bad association, being careful at school, at work, blah blah blah. I wasn’t paying attention until the brother mentioned the account in Genesis about Dinah visiting Shechem and his family, and how because of this bad association she was raped, blah blah blah.
I then read the account and noticed how Shechem was the most honorable in the land (I had read that before, and previously would just meld with the JW mindset that even though he was the most honorable, still he wasn’t a worshipper of Jehovah, etc. so it was still wrong to associate with him).
He falls in love with Dinah: (Revised Standard Version:) “ And his soul was drawn to Dinah the daughter of Jacob; he loved the maiden and spoke tenderly to her ” Gen. 34:3
Now, my question: the NWT has Shechem “violating” Dinah, to me that sounds like rape, which is what the brother on the platform went on about “see, her bad association resulted in her being raped, yada yada yada”.
(Revised Standard Version:) “ Now Jacob heard that he had defiled his daughter Dinah; but his sons were with his cattle in the field, so Jacob held his peace until they came ”. Gen. 34:5
Was she “defiled” in Jacob’s eyes because she was raped, or was it because it was out of wedlock, Shechem wasn’t a Hebrew, and hadn’t first asked permission of Jacob to marry Dinah? Since women were considered property of their fathers in those times, it suddenly occurred to me (I know, I know, it’s taken a long time) that maybe this girl Dinah decided for herself that here was a great guy, totally unlike her violent brothers and patriarchal, domineering father, and that she had had consensual sex with him.
I mean, considering what her brothers did afterwards, maybe, just maybe Dinah had an inkling of what her brothers were like (after all, she lived with them, probably waited on them hand and foot) and saw marriage to Shechem as her way out of a bad situation (kind of like marrying a non-JW in order to get out of the cult). It was the Hebrews who come across as really bad association in this account, not Shechem and Hamor, who were even willing to be circumcised so that Schechem could marry Dinah (now that’s a sacrifice!)
"The sons of Jacob answered Shechem and his father Hamor deceitfully, because he had defiled their sister Dinah … On the third day, when they were sore, two of the sons of Jacob, Simeon and Levi, Dinah's brothers, took their swords and came upon the city unawares, and killed all the males. They slew Hamor and his son Shechem with the sword, and took Dinah out of Shechem's house, and went away." Gen. 34:13, 25, 26
What are your thoughts? Was Dinah raped, or does it sound more like she was very willing, both to have sex with and then marry Shechem? Seems to me that the WTS has totally twisted this account around. Those ancient Hebrews were not the kindest, most gentle people one would ever want to associate with!
(I am just assuming, for the sake of argument, the account happened as written, this is not about whether Genesis is literal or not, etc. - just would appreciate people's comments on the account as interpreted by the WTS)
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Comments You Will Not Hear at the 3-23-03 WT Study
by blondie incomments you will not hear at the 3-23-03 wt study
february 15, 2003, page 18.
(the reviewers comments are in black or within parentheses.
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acsot
Thanks Blondie! I will thankfully be missing Sunday's meeting, but I was at the Service Meeting and Ministry School last night - took my mother who said she wanted to go (basically to get out of the house).
Well, the meeting was more of the same "get out more, do more, it's Memorial season, those who can should be pioneering". One elder's wife said that those who couldn't auxiliary pioneer (50 hours/month for any non-dubs reading), should try and be "half a pioneer" - 25 hours a month, then if someone else was "half a pioneer" for the month then that would make up 50 hours and we'd have a whole extra auxiliary pioneer! I was ready to hurl and thought I better get my mother away from these meetings (she's not well, has had several angina attacks lately) as fast as possible – guilt at not doing “more” is the last thing she needs right now.
Well, on the way home in the car, she wasn't feeling well again and said, "this is it for me, I'm too old to be going out to these meetings, maybe in the summer I can go once in awhile". I told her that Jehovah was looking at people's hearts, and knew she loved him, so she had absolutely nothing to worry about. I then mentioned a couple of examples of her friends who have suffered at what the "loving" elders have done to them, and said that there was no way I could believe that Jehovah would ignore kind-hearted, generous people of other religious persuasions yet “save” such ignorant, selfish people as So-and-So and So-and-So just because they called themselves JWs. She agreed (!). I told her that if she felt the need we could have the phone hook-up for her and she can listen to the meetings. So fortunately I am now basically meeting free! I may attend occasionally just so mum won’t die of a heart attack if she feels I’m “apostate”; her accepting that might just be a bit of a stretch for her!
I do feel bad for those who still believe that mechanistic, cold-hearted ritual like adding up numbers on slips of paper is what God requires. I also have another point from the meeting which I will post separately under beliefs – kind of a question/observation – so, Blondie, Jgnat or any others, if you have any insights I’ll appreciate it!
I think I’ll entitle it Dinah: what bad association?
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I Adopted A Pet From The Humane Society
by RAYZORBLADE inyessiree...i had an afternoon off last friday.
so i decided to venture down to the toronto humane society.
i was so surprised at the variety of animals: dogs, cats, rabbits, guinea pigs, ferrets, rats, mice and birds.
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acsot
Way to go! Congratulations! It just sickens me to know how many people give up/abuse their pets, but I am heartened by those like yourself who adopt them into a good home. There is a no-kill animal rescue association here at which I am thinking of volunteering. Too many lonely animals, not enough good people like yourself!
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Help she is trying to get to my son!!!!!!! FINAL CHAPTER
by Jesika inok, well here is the end of this crazy story............................
the court date was set for the 17th (monday).
i got my new next door neighbor to represent me and my now x husband.
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acsot
WAY TO GO JES!!!
(ACSOT RAISES HER GLASS) CHEERS LUV! CONGRATULATIONS - YOU DID IT!
Wow, what a great time this is - your new job, the court case - definitely good karma (whatever that's supposed to be - haven't got that far in my extracurricular reading ).
If I ever make it to Texas, the martinis are on me!
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What Would You Say If Someone Expressed Interest In Being A JW???
by minimus inif someone told you that they thought the witnesses seemed like good people and that they were thinking of having a bible study with them, would you try to persuade them not to?
would you just keep quiet, hoping they would see things for themselves?.......if you are still a witness (technically), would you subtlely or overtly tell them to run??
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acsot
I've already mentioned "in passing" what bothered me about JWs was the shunning policy. I told this to my boss, a lawyer, and she knows I care for my elderly mother. I mentioned how my mother would be forced to practically ignore me, not ever go out with me on social occasions (her only means of getting out of the house), if it was ever found out that I was frequenting apostate web sites, celebrating birthdays (a very recent occurrence), wished people Merry Christmas, etc., and that if my mother treated me as always, then she would be ostracized herself. Understandably, my boss was horrified (she's very close to her family). I seriously doubt that she (or any of her family members) will ever be interested enough to accept a magazine, let alone anything else beyond that.
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What bothers/worries you most about the war ?
by m0nk3y inthere seems to be quite a few concerned people out the regarding this war in iraq and for good reason.
so what exaclty is bothering you about it, does it involve the very real fact that alot of innocent blood could/will be shed ?
are you fearing this could all be a part of bible/wts prophecy ?
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acsot
As Southland mentioned, it really irks me that JWs take delight in other people suffering. They'll gleefully go door-to-door and prey on people's fears by telling them that they can find refuge in Jehovah's organization, blah, blah, blah. If soldiers die, well it's their fault for going into the armed forces; if innocent civilians die, well too bad but prophesy has to be fulfilled.
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JW story about the day after...
by Mike K. in" "we're alive!
" i said, "we're alive!
everybody was doing the same thing, hugging and dancing in circles.
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acsot
Day 1 was nauseating. I'm sick to think I believed that crap for so long . What a bunch of narrow-minded, delusional, judgmental, vengeful ... oh never mind, I'm ranting.
Day 2 was a great read and much more realistic. Were you lurking at that other site also?
BTW, welcome!
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Why do some of you get so worked up over this, JW's control relies on lack
by Its so simple inpersonal growth.
most people are angry at themselves for not seeing it sooner and they just blame the wtbs.
if it was not them there would be something else that 'filled their need' and would have ensnared them.
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acsot
or you have some other thing going on in what passes for your head, I don't know, but I will no doubt extract great amusement from further bleating on your part.
Next time you want to assemble an arguement, try having a bit more glue.
Abaddon: Now those are a couple of good lines! Can I borrow them sometime?
So where's the rebuttal Simple? It's been several hours since you posted ...