i believe there is growing unrest amongst jws.
they may not be very cohesive or organized, but the rigorous demands for obedience coming from the leadership and the unbending, never ending list of rules, not to mention the end that has been ever so-close for so long yet never climaxes, has a lot of jws frustrated.. don't get me wrong.
i know there are some jws that will hang in there no matter what they're told to do and will obey without question.
The Witnesses I know watch rated R movies, read Twilight and occult novels, as well as play fantasy video games. They attend sporting events, socialize with worldly people about worldly interests, and wear clothes with skulls.
Then when you mention blood transfusions or holidays, they criticize you for not obeying scripture.
i have been operating as an ex-jw for over five years now.. i was never d/f or d/a - following an unsuccessful marriage to a jw and subsequent divorce, i went through quite an awful period of my life.. i was blocked from seeing my daughter by my ex-wife and her staunch jw family.. slowly my jw friends started pulling away as they didn't want to get involved.. i lost all interest in the organisation, and started to build a social circle outside of the faith.. at this point, my mother was still an active jw.. during that time, my mother wrote a letter to the bethel in london explaining to them what my ex-wife had done, and how she had been supported by her jw family.. the reply ; your son, and yourself need to work on your own spirituality.
jehovah will bless you as a result.. so that was it.. over the last 12 months, myself and my mother have spent a lot of time researching the organisation.
i gave her crisis of conscience which she has read, and now she is at the point where she doesn't believe that the organisation have the truth and hasn't been to a meeting in over a year.. yet, she has been hounded by elder's since this time.. one particular elder - imagine, the hitler-type elder who makes it his business to organise and dictate everyone's lives.
@00DAD: I never said it would be considered apostacy. In my education of Elder behavior, based on numerous accounts on and off JWN, this Elder in question seems like a power obsessed asshole (pardon my german). And from numerous accounts, Elder's like him don't like being rejected. He has probably been an asshole all his life and when the Organization told him the Holy Spirit selected him to be an Elder, it just encouraged his behavior as Jehovah Approved.
This Elder D will pry into every facet of their lives until he can find something to use against them. He seems to enjoy public humiliation as a means of flaunting himself, so it's not a stretch that if he can conjour rumors of apostacy, he'll make every effort to publicize it to the rest of the congregation. Until they are ready to leave on their own terms, it's best to distance themselves from Elder D.
If he was a passive or mildly persistent Elder then I would wholeheartedly agree with your methods @00DAD, but he is an anal retentive fear monger who has the position to destroy their relationships in the congregation by putting up that thought-stopping hate-trigger called "apostate." Many JWs and exJWs here know all too well that the judicial committee doesn't need to be formed to incite fear and paranoia. A loose accusation of apostacy floated around the congregation gossipers is all it would take.
@uk_ex_jw: it's harassment. She needs to tell him to stop calling, that she will speak with him when she has time, but mention that he's made her uncomfortable with all his persistent attempts to reach her. Then she needs to file a police report so that his next attempt to reach her will be considered harassment. This should give her the ability to get a restraining order, and since he is a figure that can ruin her reputation, his harassment can merit a gag order, or whatever it's called over there.
Should give you your opening to leave on your terms without Elder interference.
i have been operating as an ex-jw for over five years now.. i was never d/f or d/a - following an unsuccessful marriage to a jw and subsequent divorce, i went through quite an awful period of my life.. i was blocked from seeing my daughter by my ex-wife and her staunch jw family.. slowly my jw friends started pulling away as they didn't want to get involved.. i lost all interest in the organisation, and started to build a social circle outside of the faith.. at this point, my mother was still an active jw.. during that time, my mother wrote a letter to the bethel in london explaining to them what my ex-wife had done, and how she had been supported by her jw family.. the reply ; your son, and yourself need to work on your own spirituality.
jehovah will bless you as a result.. so that was it.. over the last 12 months, myself and my mother have spent a lot of time researching the organisation.
i gave her crisis of conscience which she has read, and now she is at the point where she doesn't believe that the organisation have the truth and hasn't been to a meeting in over a year.. yet, she has been hounded by elder's since this time.. one particular elder - imagine, the hitler-type elder who makes it his business to organise and dictate everyone's lives.
@00DAD: the advice on how to handle the mother is sound. But I can't say I would advise handling the Elder the way you presented. You know as well as anyone on JWN that if she responded in any of those ways, the Elder will be able to find someone willing to point a finger at her and the family with a vague accusation of apostacy. If necessary, the Elder will find a second person who happened to "remember" instances of uncleanliness or apostacy.
If you and your mother are ready to exit on your own terms, do it at a meeting. Tell anyone who will listen that you're leaving and tell them why.
As for the PM, lay it out simple.
"The revelation during the recent case of Doe v. The Watchtower Society that the Organization HAS indeed instituted a policy that protects pedophiles and rapists within the congregation is cause for concern, and by understanding of Scripture, I am within my spiritual right to have doubts. I am not preaching my doubts to brothers in the congregation, nor have I disassociated myself from the Organization. Your attempts to slander me and ruin my connections within the congregation are scripturally unfounded.
I will be making note of your prejudiced accusations in the event rumors or gossip about my good standing should arise. I am a Christian first, but it gives you no scriptural grounds to make uninformed accusations to anyone, especially under the idea that because you wholeheartedly support policies that protect the wolves among the flock who would hurt Jehovah's children, so must I unflinchingly.
Should you feel the impulse to criticize me further, I ask that you follow scriptural procedure expected of all brothers in our Organization and come to me first to discuss your grievances so that your words do not wrongfully spark a debate among elders who would take your good standing over my tarnished reputation (made possible by your impatient, uninformed accusations) and see fit to clean me from our Christian congregation. Imagine if your words got a Christian wrongfully disfellowshipped. Left in Jehovah's hands, where would one bearing false witness fit into Paradise? You can no longer say you didn't know the severity of your impatience because you are being told now.
I feel you are teetering on the edge of the truth, and it's my responsibility as a Christian to let the elders know because you don't seem to be willing to tell them, and if I stay quiet, Jehovah says I am equally responsible for your sins.
With warm Christian love,
YOUR NAME HERE"
Or something to that effect. Discredit his accusation, take screen captures, warn him he is at fault now for false witnessing, and add the piss to his pants by reporting him. Use the Witness tactic of the Red Herring (change the subject of your faults to what it is he's done wrong).
there must be a reason jws stay or people join..
their spanish congregations have some really nice looking dolled up whores. not saying they are all whores but well....they are whores.
why did the wts not try to settle this lawsuit before going to trial as they had so many times previously?
was it presumptiousness on the part of the society's lawyers and gb?
had this been settled it would have hardly caused a whimper.. it got me to thinking that although the verdict of $28 million is unheard of, it may actually further the wts to make their claims that they are the only true religion.. reason being- if the monetary award is overturned then they will say it was jehovahs will.
if i read the exhibit chart properly the society tried to settle twice. unlike the rhetoric of jws hearing about this case candace conti wasnt in it for money.
i was bitterly disappointed that the times only ran a dinky ap article rather than a nyt staff reporting article.
the difference is night and day.
ap articles appear to be cobbled together press releases with no context or history from a neutral source.
@wannabefree I get what you are saying. Especially in the context you presented. I feel that, in my presented context of "unless they establish otherwise individually," it isn't a fallacy.
The Society has published and testified in a court of law that individual thinking is unacceptable to the Christian mind. The Society itself tangibly established that "unless they establish otherwise individually," the Witness is expected to share the same views and beliefs as every other Witness under the law of the Governing Body.
In the context I originally presented, I feel the message is as accurate as it gets. I'm acknowledging the prospect of individuality, but at the same time, recognizing that the majority rules in all unestablished instances.
I will go so far as to apologise to any who came to the same understanding as yourself, as it shows I could have worded my original post to convey the intended message.
your wife starts wearing long pajamas and a robe to bed.......and sleeping under a different set of covers?.
There isn't a vacuum around that sucks that hard. Sorry...
so the evil slave was fined, and there was justice, but really was there any justice?
when was the last time you saw a helper for a crime be fined money?
why is it that those maggots at the wb&ts who have cause such pain and death be allowed to walk away with a 26m fine and frozen assets?
I imagine there would need to be a class action lawsuit to get what you, me, and people like ourselves are looking for.
The Watchtower has a billion in assets. Get a clever lawyer like that Simons guy. Have him represent any Witnesses who reported their abuse to the Elders but did not already take the Society to court for it. If they did, chances are they settled, so they'd be legally ineligible for it.
There are hundreds, if not thousands who fit the eligible description. So many songs of sorrow unheard.
Take those victims, couple them with the precedent of Doe v. Watchtower, and sue those bastards for $1 BILLION
i was bitterly disappointed that the times only ran a dinky ap article rather than a nyt staff reporting article.
the difference is night and day.
ap articles appear to be cobbled together press releases with no context or history from a neutral source.
When you look at the numbers they boast, it's very apparent how dangerous this situation can be.
They have over 7 million baptized who are groomed to support any actions and decisions by their leadership. 7 million who, unless they establish otherwise individually, are willing to die, let others needlessly die, give up all possessions, and destroy their family/friend connections, ALL in the name of the Governing Body.
If given an army of 7 million potential kamikaze pilots, I imagine any handful of people can bring the world to its knees. The danger isn't world domination obviously, but something worse. Over 7 million people who are groomed to believe pedophelia is acceptable by a fellow Witness. 7 million people who are willing to blame the victim, even with knowledge that the Society has a policy to hide and protect sex offenders.
Trying to find a solid number of how many Kingdom Halls there are, most estimates fall around 100,000. Given the Watchtower's registry of 27,000+ known sex offenders, that means there are at least 1 or 2 sex offenders in every four Halls. During Assemblies, there could be nearly four dozen, depending on the region.
Let the Times know that these Witnesses stand by the Governing Body by citing the AP articles with a Comments Section.
fox carolina 21deputies: wife stabbed by husband at church.
whns greenville-9 minutes agogreenville county deputies said they were called to kingdom hall of jehovah's witnesses at 1400 old spartanburg rd.
about 2:15 p.m. where they found ...http://www.foxcarolina.com/story/18848997/deputies-wife-stabbed-by-husband-at-church.
maybe they let it happen so they can tell all their jw friends about how the husband was possessed and stood ten feet tall breathing fire from his nostrils. they can talk about how they wanted to be heroic but the three foot long machete the husband weilded was too overbearing.
we all know for a fact at the very least they will say they sensed he was a danger the moment they met him.
