the two "get out of jail cards" that the society plays when explaining away failed predictions are:
god's prophecies are never wrong, its just our interpretation, let's wait a while and when things are clearer we'll tell you in retrospect what the prophecy really was.
we never actually said that, it was the rank and file, they got over excited.
jgnat,
absolutely right!!!
the media groups (and ecology parties) come up with one scenario after the other.
in the 70ties they talked about that we live at the brink of a new ice age, then the oil crisis, i remember in the early 80ties as a small child i was scared that the human race would get extinct because of AIDS, and so on and so forth...its all bullshit!
don't get me wrong, i'm not one to actively persecute jw's, i'm just wondering what you guys think is the best agrument/point to use when a pesky brother or sister just won't leave you alone.
normally, i am willing to listen to their drivel out of respect (even though i have no respect for the wt) but there are times when i am not in the mood to hear them babble.
i normally bring up the 1914 generation point, and it normally works.
Farkel,
wouldn't they anser it was satan who invented the sword to fight against the good angles?
carl has been dead for 6 years today.
his writings and his clear thinking have had a large impact on me and who i am today.
without people like carl i would still be completely lost in the world of mysticism.. i dedicate this thread to his memory:.
freeman,
wow, that is really cool!
marry christams to you,
Realist
why does god allow this stuff?
according to your teachings, believers, just so he can stroke himself and show how man has failed.
in fact believers will read this stuff and shrug it off because in the future god will fix it it and it just proves why we need god..
Hello AGuest,
wow that is quite a story.
couple of questions...why did God pick you? what do i have to do to experience that too?
why do spirit creatures have wings?
unfortunately there are many people claiming they have seen ghoasts, god or angels...do you have any pictures or other outside evidence supporting what you have seen?
could you talk with god? if so what did you tell him? could you ask him scientific questions?
thanks a lot,
Realist
PS: may i ask a personal question...how old are you? and is AGuest a guy or a girl?
while many have had their hopes dashed concerning the change on this "generation " teaching, there is yet another teaching yet to fall very soon.it must and will fall because it connected to the generation doctrine that has already been changed.. the teaching that could shortly cause the governing body a serious problem and could bring about a major change for the vast majority of the rank and file is "the great tribulation".while this teaching has been put off to the " indefinite future"the gb.continues to have a serious problem with it.if the great tribulation fails to occur reasonably soon,the doctrine concerning the earthly hope for the vast majority of jw's.will have proven to have been false.the' great crowd' are those who will have come out of the great tribulation.according to the society those persons began to be identified as present as early as 1932.so the youngest members are now in their 70's or 80's.. again, the time-line is running out!
and has the potential of adversely affecting hundreds of thousands of other witnesses in the not to distant future,as time passes without the fulfilment of their hopes for a new heavens and a new earth.. also, some time ago,there was a watchtower study article, i don't remember which one it was .it spiritualized, armageddon!
psalm 91,especially verse 7.it said that a thousand will fall at your very side and ten thousand at your right hand,applies to those leaving the org.
Blue,
wouldn't your assumption require that the number of people with this special status are decreasing because of time passing? well it seems the number of annointed is actually increasing not decreasing. so there is little hope that this teaching will fall soon.
i am a non believer but am very interested in dating a jw.
we've never discussed the religion but he is the nicest person ive ever met.
i need information on where they have meetings and when.
Stefanie,
please do NOT assume that this religion won't be a problem in the future and that you can work around it!!! it will be a HUGE PROBLEM in case he really believes in the WT. PLEASE check out how strongly he believes in the WT and if he would perhaps leave that church. check this out before you really fall in love with him.
i made the mistake to think that the religion won't effect us and that my girlfriend would be intelligent enough to realize the WT is not god's channel....but she didn't wake up and we both suffered a great deal.
wish you the very best and marry christms too!
Realist
why does god allow this stuff?
according to your teachings, believers, just so he can stroke himself and show how man has failed.
in fact believers will read this stuff and shrug it off because in the future god will fix it it and it just proves why we need god..
AGuest,
first of all...marry christmas to you!
so did i understand that right...you have actually seen angels and god and michael the archangel etc.??? actually seen them??? or did you perhaps have a bad LSD trip?
can you clearify this please!?
Realist
why does god allow this stuff?
according to your teachings, believers, just so he can stroke himself and show how man has failed.
in fact believers will read this stuff and shrug it off because in the future god will fix it it and it just proves why we need god..
Hello AGuest,
ok lets continue!
lets focus on two things for the moment:
a) please name the facts that support the existance of a careing God...who interferes with human affairs and who inspired parts of the bible.
b)
Even absent earthquakes, floods, etc., people would still age and die. That is the natural process... and is perfect. Even if such life seems to be "cut short", there was no MALICIOUS intent on the part of the earth... nor any GAIN to be realized by it... at one level or another. Humans, however, "murder" their fellowman... through hatred, hypocrisy and greed... with malicious intent... and/or for gain. That... is NOT a natural process. Even in the "Old" Law, Israel had to take care of their property and livestock so that no other human would be NEGLIGENTLY harmed. Why? "Do unto others..." and no one WANTS to lose a loved one. Thus, if such harm can be PREVENTED... it behooves us to do so. It is this... that is "imperfect"... starting with the harm that COULD have been prevented by Adam... and Cain... but wasn't.
1.yes the earth doesn't gain anything if people or animals die in an earthquake a bush fire or a volcano explosion. does this make it a perfect arrangement?
2.animal gain something when they kill other animals or people. they gain food, a better position to produce offspring etc. (hence animals would be imperfect according to your definition)
3. humans act in principle like animals...again we have the highest intellectual capacity of all species on this planet...which allows us to operate in more complex societies than animals do. nevertheless are our actions in principle that of animals.
sometimes you can only shake your head:us blocks cheap drugs agreement.
the united states has blocked an international agreement to allow poor countries to buy cheap drugs.
one-hundred and forty-three countries stood on the same ground, we were hoping to make that unanimous.
extrabit,
what you propose is almost impossible to establish. what would hinder people for instance to setup an office in lets say south africa and then send the cheap generic drugs to the US and europe?
again if these countries want the drugs than they have to pay the price...buy less weapons and get the patent laws.
to blame the western world is not quite fair...without us these drugs wouldn't exist in the first place.
sometimes you can only shake your head:us blocks cheap drugs agreement.
the united states has blocked an international agreement to allow poor countries to buy cheap drugs.
one-hundred and forty-three countries stood on the same ground, we were hoping to make that unanimous.
its a tough tough problem. on one hand you cannot allow papent laws to be ignored (although the pharma industry makes gigantic profits which could certainly be cut back a little bit) ...on the other hand people die.
i would say the best solution would be that these idiotic countries (africa etc.) buy the rights from the companies instead of buying tanks and other weapons...but its not gonna happen
