well, i'm finally reading coc, and i must tell you that despite already being an ex-dub i was *shocked*.
the thing that got me was the gb's apparently unselfconsciously acting above all the rules that they would apply so harshly to everyone else.
maybe i'm naive, but i didn't expect that level of hypocrisy.. so what did you find most shocking in coc?
Perhaps Nytelecom would like to enlighten us with some errors that he found in the book?
rem
'A scientific opinion is one which there is some reason to believe is true; an unscientific opinion is one which is held for some reason other than its probable truth.' - Bertrand Russell
i am an active jw and was raised as one.
i have been watching the site for a while and thought it could benefit from the opinions of someone who is happily a member of the jw's.
i will not get into any argumets that lead to nothing except name calling, and will not talk with anyone who is just plain mean (plenty of them in here).
Scumgrief,
Well, I'm not DA'd or DF'd, but I don't consider myself a witness anymore, really. My wife and I are just still semi-associated so that our family can still associate with us and not feel bad inviting us to family functions and stuff. It keeps things simpler.
I left because of doctrinal and policy issues, such as the 607 vs 587 chronology and the blood issue, among many others. It just came to a point where I felt that I could not in good conscience bring others into this religion when I knew the organization was lying about things. That affected me deeply. I remember crying myself to sleep one night when it all sank in. I knew my life would never be the same - I had been lied to my whole life. But my wife and I are very happy now.
My brother-in-law actually spoke to me the other day for the first time in a year. He would usually just ignore me - even in public. Hopefully things will get better. They are not back to normal yet. I'm not sure if things ever will be normal again. My hope is that my friends and family will find out on their own that this organization is a sham now while they are young, instead of finding out years from now when they are old and feel like they've wasted their lives.
Good to have you on the board, Scumgrief!
rem
P.S.: A great book to read is "Crisis of Conscience" by Ray Franz, former Governing Body member (he is Fred Franz's nephew). My wife got it for me for our 3rd anniversary. Even though it was one of the least expensive anniversary gifts I've ever received, to me it was priceless. You can get it from Amazon.com:
'A scientific opinion is one which there is some reason to believe is true; an unscientific opinion is one which is held for some reason other than its probable truth.' - Bertrand Russell
i am an active jw and was raised as one.
i have been watching the site for a while and thought it could benefit from the opinions of someone who is happily a member of the jw's.
i will not get into any argumets that lead to nothing except name calling, and will not talk with anyone who is just plain mean (plenty of them in here).
Scumgrief,
You have a Witness rock band? Cool! I was in a Witness rock band until I decided to grow a goatee last year. They kicked me out because the goatee was supposedly rebellious. This was an alternative rock band for heavens sake! :)
Anyway, getting kicked out of my own rock band (I wrote many of the songs and played lead guitar - heck, I got the band together in the first place) kinda depressed me. Especially when my best friend (and bandmate/brother-in-law) started shunning me because I confessed that I did have certain doubts. But I still love my old friends. I hope some day they will see how immature they are acting. I'm not holding my breath, though! ;)
rem
'A scientific opinion is one which there is some reason to believe is true; an unscientific opinion is one which is held for some reason other than its probable truth.' - Bertrand Russell
my parents just called and told me that the elders were going to forbid my sister to have her wedding in the hall, and refused an elder to give the talk because we were going to be in it.
there is no reason for this because we are not df'd or da'd.
i think my dad is going to type out his da letter tonite, he was so pissed.. to all active jw's who post here!!!.
ASHITAKA,
I'm sorry to hear about this. Yes it is very frustrating! When my wife and I got married five years ago (this friday!) we had a similar issue. My brother and my wife's sister were recently reinstated and we wanted them to be in our wedding (of course). Well, the elders said that since they were still on restrictions then they would not be able to be in the wedding at the Kingdom Hall.
Well we were pissed and printed out the WT articles that said that even worldly family members could be in wedding parties. But it all fell on deaf ears. I was still a brainwashed MS at the time, so I didn't even consider not having the wedding at the Hall. I would have done things differently now, but in the end the elders won that battle. I did make my brother an usher, though, so he could wear a tux.
It's so amazing the degree that the Organization controls people's lives!
rem
'A scientific opinion is one which there is some reason to believe is true; an unscientific opinion is one which is held for some reason other than its probable truth.' - Bertrand Russell
since hawkaw and messenger (and others?
) have suspicions about me being some kind of informant or troll, i would like to know how the rest of you feel about my posts?.
if it were up to you, would you want me to continue posting or not?
I enjoy your posts. Many of us were once in a similar position as you. You have to do what is right for you and I respect your looking at both sides of the issue before coming to a conclusion.
rem
'A scientific opinion is one which there is some reason to believe is true; an unscientific opinion is one which is held for some reason other than its probable truth.' - Bertrand Russell
if evolution is true and god doesnt exist, and all matter always existed, and life keeps adapting and getting more and more advanced, conquering all problems set before its existence.. then life should have already filled the entire universe and advanced to the point of never dying.. am i being presumptuous?.
.
if someone lived a trillion x longer than you, and had a billion x more reasoning ability would he come to the same conclusions as you?.
D,
The question of where matter came from has nothing to do with Evolution. But to answer your question, matter came from a singularity around 15 or so Billion years ago. That's about all we know. One question I've wondered is why there is something instead of nothing? We'll probably never know.
rem
'A scientific opinion is one which there is some reason to believe is true; an unscientific opinion is one which is held for some reason other than its probable truth.' - Bertrand Russell
why won't you let me help you?
you have been deceived!!!
it's not too late.
I haven't met an apostate I couldn't bust.
Er, you mean "bust up laughing"? LOL
rem
'A scientific opinion is one which there is some reason to believe is true; an unscientific opinion is one which is held for some reason other than its probable truth.' - Bertrand Russell
speculation here:.
1.- un finally became tired of the wt seven head beast crap etc.
2.- wt could be of help to the un.
The WTBTS is nothing but a speck of dust to the UN. What would they care what that puny, insignificant organization says or has to offer? I'm sure the UN doesn't give a rat's ass about the WTBTS as they have much bigger fish to fry. The WTBTS probably doesn't even show up on their radar screen. It seems that the UN was not even aware of the WTBTS true feelings toward them. In any rate, the UN had nothing mucht to gain from this association, really. The WTBTS is the one that benefitted the most from the association.
rem
'A scientific opinion is one which there is some reason to believe is true; an unscientific opinion is one which is held for some reason other than its probable truth.' - Bertrand Russell
the society, in defence of their stand against birthday celebrations, often state that the only two birthdays mentioned in the bible were of ungodly people and that harm resulted both times.. however, depending on which translation you use, there are at least five birthdays mentioned in the bible and, interestingly, these additional ones are all of jehovah's servants!.
even the new world translation has a third birthday celebration that jw's rarely, if ever, speak about.. .
please note that not all translations are accepted as 100% accurate by jw's and that i myself am not completely sure that these extra birthdays are truly what they seem - i simply state that they they are recorded there as birthday celebrations.. .
I'm thinking of Job 1:4 & 5 (NASB)
[4] His sons used to go and hold a feast in the house of each one on his day, and they would send and invite their three sisters to eat and drink with them. [5] When the days of feasting had completed their cycle, Job would send and consecrate them, rising up early in the morning and offering burnt offerings according to the number of them all; for Job said, "Perhaps my sons have sinned and cursed God in their hearts." Thus Job did continually.
Some understand the feasting, "each one on his day", to mean Job's children were celebrating their birthdays.
rem
'A scientific opinion is one which there is some reason to believe is true; an unscientific opinion is one which is held for some reason other than its probable truth.' - Bertrand Russell
i'm interested in finding out what everyone is reading these days.. or what books have had an impact on your worldview since leaving the org.. what have you found helpful in re-constructing and broadening the way you think and feel?.
what have you found to be particularly enlightening on 'your journey?'.
thanks in advance,luv to all.tina.
I read like 95% non-fiction, I usually hate fiction.
Same here, bboy. I have to force myself to read some fiction, mostly classics that I missed out on from not going to college. I'm gonna tackle an Aynn Rand novel for my next fiction book. Probably the Fountainhead. It seems for every work of fiction on my Amazon wish list, there are 10 or 15 nonfiction books - usually on science, philosophy, or religious topics.
Word to your mother,
rem
'A scientific opinion is one which there is some reason to believe is true; an unscientific opinion is one which is held for some reason other than its probable truth.' - Bertrand Russell
