rem

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Posts by rem

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  68

  Any athiest tried a Ouji Board?

  by Marilyn in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i've been told the glass moves around spelling stuff out.

  my brother, before he became a dumbdub said it happened to him - but he was pretty young and probably p'd.

  movies and tv play along with it.

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  rem

  Target,

  You are free to take my post however you like. I don't believe I ever called you a liar. If you took it that way, then that's your problem. In my explanation YOU were the inexperienced user being duped by more experienced ones (or at least someone who was feeling a bit mischevious). I'm not sure how you missed that. I was merely using your experience to show that trickery is possible. Of course I can't say for sure because your description of the event wasn't really clear (where was this Elwood character all this time - was he in the room? was he touching the board?).

  Anyway, whether or not it's true in your case (which I highly suspect it was - Lwood? Come on, you have to be kidding me!) I suspect that trickery is involved in most cases. Remember, it's a board game. People like to have fun with one another. There's always a prankster in a crowd. Some people are just too credulous.

  rem

  "We all do no end of feeling, and we mistake it for thinking." - Mark Twain
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  22

  Evolution is fact Bias - corrected post

  by Decidedly_Unsure in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  all object-oriented languages have some means,.

  the dog class defines messages that the dog.

  this is the key for someone with no bias toward evolution.

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  rem

  Dw,

  Any theory is "off track" if it doesn't take into account the whole range of evidence. I'm not sure how you can call that confirmation bias.

  Perhaps you could do some research on why scientists feel there is "junk code" in DNA.

  I'm not sure why we seem to have trouble communicating. When I say that I can't say for certain something is wrong, but it most probably is, that's exactly what I mean. I can't say for a certainty that Invisible Pink Unicorns didn't creat you and me, but taking into account all of the evidence we have, that conclusion is most probably wrong.

  I'm not sure why you seem to find "contradictions" in my writings or find my statements confusing. Perhaps you are not really reading them, but are skimming them and responding to what you THINK I'm saying.

  rem

  "We all do no end of feeling, and we mistake it for thinking." - Mark Twain
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  22

  Evolution is fact Bias - corrected post

  by Decidedly_Unsure in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  all object-oriented languages have some means,.

  the dog class defines messages that the dog.

  this is the key for someone with no bias toward evolution.

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  rem

  Dw,

  Do you like Decidedly's answer because it's true and fits all of the facts, or do you like it because it makes you feel good?

  Has Decidedly provided any evidence for his theory, such as who this creator is? A useful theory has to be falsifiable. Is this theory falsifiable?

  Anyone can make a plausible sounding theory that only takes into account a subset of the entire range of evidence. This is why it's easy for laymen to get off track - we don't know all the minutia, just the broad outlines.

  Now I'm not saying that Decidedly's idea is certainly wrong (there are a lot of "could be" stories), but there is certainly no way of providing evidence for that idea or even falsifying it. Also, the fact that it only addresses a narrow subset of the data instead of the whole range of evidence makes it almost impossible to be correct.

  We can't go by what feels right (otherwise I'd still be a creationist). We should go by what has facts and evidence to back the point.

  rem

  "We all do no end of feeling, and we mistake it for thinking." - Mark Twain
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  27

  What do you think about Evolution debates?

  by rem in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  what do you think about evolution debates?.

  this is not going to be a thread about which theory is correct.

  i want to ask the board if anyone has actually found these discussions on evolution to be beneficial to themselves.

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  rem

  Dannybear,

  The notion that application of academic's or should I say, sophisticated scientific jargon or very narrow observations, offered as proof that evolution is a fact(when I use the word evolution, I mean specificaly life starting from nothing, or some pin head size particle of matter)

  This is why I think Evolutionists and Creationists end up talking past one another on these threads. We have two completely different definitions of "Evolution".

  To a Creationist, Evolution includes the Big Bang and life from non-life (abiogenesis). To an evolutionist, those are separate theories that fall or stand on their own merits. To an evolutionist, evolution only means a change in genetic information over time in populations of organisms and the comon origin, or ancestry of all living things. That's basically it. No life from non-life. Abiogenesis and the Big Bang are admittedly more speculative, but evolution in and of itself is rock solid. Evolution doesn't deal with the origins of Life, but the origins of Species (Before Darwin species were thought to be immutable). It seems that many Creationists, when they learn what evolution is all about, find they do not have an issue with Evolution proper.

  I'm wondering if we need to start defining our terms before jumping into these discussions to make them more fruitful. I think this is the one of the biggest issues that gets these discussions off track.

  Evolution has nothing to do with Atheism, the Big Bang, or Life from Non-life. I think that is why the "ignorant" word gets thrown around because, for the majority of Creationists, they don't really even know what they are arguing against.

  My two cents,

  rem

  "We all do no end of feeling, and we mistake it for thinking." - Mark Twain
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  22

  Evolution is fact Bias - corrected post

  by Decidedly_Unsure in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  all object-oriented languages have some means,.

  the dog class defines messages that the dog.

  this is the key for someone with no bias toward evolution.

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  rem

  Decidedly,

  Very interesting post. I've thought along the same lines as this before as I am also in the computer field. My initial reaction (which may be unfounded) would be this:

  99% of all species that have ever lived on this planet have gone extinct. Are we version 9,9576.21 of whatever code god can't seem to get right and will we be replaced by version 9,9577.00 soon? It's easy to take one aspect of the DNA evidence by itself and form a plausible sounding theory, but unfortunately this theory doesn't take into consideration all of the other facts, such as great extinctions, fossil record of clear change over time, observed speciation, Mitochondrial DNA (not DNA in the nucleus) which shows clear ancestry, etc.

  I haven't had enough time to give a more thoughtful reply, since it's bed time over here. I look forward to other responses and to more discussion with you on this topic in the future.

  rem

  "We all do no end of feeling, and we mistake it for thinking." - Mark Twain
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  4

  Evolution is a fact post - Biased view?

  by Decidedly_Unsure in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  <p>the "evolution is a fact" argument started by janh seems to have found.

  in fact, most of the.

  <br>the argument mentioned by janh.. <br>the key is inheritance, please read through to the explanation of what.

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  rem

  Decidedly,

  Very interesting post. I've thought along the same lines as this before as I am also in the computer field. My initial reaction (which may be unfounded) would be this:

  99% of all species that have ever lived on this planet have gone extinct. Are we version 9,9576.21 of whatever code god can't seem to get right and will we be replaced by version 9,9577.00 soon? It's easy to take one aspect of the DNA evidence by itself and form a plausible sounding theory, but unfortunately this theory doesn't take into consideration all of the other facts, such as great extinctions, fossil record of clear change over time, observed speciation, Mitochondrial DNA (not DNA in the nucleus) which shows clear ancestry, etc.

  I haven't had enough time to give a more thoughtful reply, since it's bed time over here. I look forward to other responses and to more discussion with you on this topic in the future.

  rem

  "We all do no end of feeling, and we mistake it for thinking." - Mark Twain
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  27

  What do you think about Evolution debates?

  by rem in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  what do you think about evolution debates?.

  this is not going to be a thread about which theory is correct.

  i want to ask the board if anyone has actually found these discussions on evolution to be beneficial to themselves.

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  rem

  Dw,

  I'm not sure I understand where you are coming from. Anyone is welcome to post on this thread. I was just making a special invitation to ones who don't post often, at least on evolution threads, that way I could get a feel for the mood of the board.

  I suppose my main intent is to see if it is worth the time and effort to respond to creationists with the evolutionary viewpoint. From the responses so far it seems it's a valuable contribution to the board. I know it was valuable to me, but how am I to know that I'm not the only one?

  If you don't find threads on Evolution valuable then here is your chance to say so. :)

  rem

  PS: I'd like to add that I consider myself more a lurker on this board since I post far less often than some of the more familiar faces here.

  "We all do no end of feeling, and we mistake it for thinking." - Mark Twain
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  55

  Monkey trial

  by moman in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  it seems this whole debate, (creation v/s evolution) iz coming to the fore again, along with (religion v/s state) debate.

  my sister iz a producer for pbs & haz a documentary coming up on the scopes or (monkey trial), & i think little haz changed.. i am non-religious, but i can't help laughing when arguements are made claiming man & monkeys share common ansesters, although a few individuals on my wifes side make me wonder.

  i am not saying, i have the answers, but man iz just so radicaly different from animals!

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  rem

  Seigs,

  You are on the right track. I've heard differing theories on the continuing evolution of man. It seems that since we have so much control over our environment, Natural Selection isn't as powerful on us anymore. Sexual Selection and genetic drift will probably be more powerful in the long run for human evolution. This might not be a good thing though. I'm not sure.

  It is a good point you bring up that we don't seem to be as concerned about our future as we maybe should be. Actually it does not seem to contradict evolutionary theory, because evolution does not strategize. Evolution looks for immediate results, not long-term advantages. Evolution has no foresight.

  That's could explain why over 99% of all species that have ever lived have gone extinct. Evolution only cares about the organism being good enough to reproduce - it doesn't care about longevity of the species. I've heard it said that a species usually never lasts longer than 10 million years or so and many die out much faster than that. Who knows how long we have until we branch off into multiple species and homo sapiens become extinct. Perhaps climactic changes will act as a catalyst for speciation, or maybe colonization of other planets? It's hard to say.

  Remember, as far as self-preservation is concerned, it only acts on one organism at a time. We are short-sighted, only caring about our own bodies and our children's bodies (from an evolutionary standpoint), so decisions we make now may not necessarily be the best long term decisions in terms of self-preservation of the whole population. (We'd rather burn coal now so we can live through the winter instead of wait and develop eco-friendly fuel sources).

  rem

  "We all do no end of feeling, and we mistake it for thinking." - Mark Twain
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  27

  What do you think about Evolution debates?

  by rem in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  what do you think about evolution debates?.

  this is not going to be a thread about which theory is correct.

  i want to ask the board if anyone has actually found these discussions on evolution to be beneficial to themselves.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  rem

  I was going to write a longer reply, but I started getting off track, and that would be going against my own rule of not saying which side is right. Darn! :)

  Anyway, I guess I'll say that I really enjoy Evolution threads when they stay on topic (when they don't vere into the existence of god question - even though I do also enjoy those debates). It's really refreshing when there are one or two that have honest questions. It's best when you can discuss a point an move on in a logical fashion instead of jumping around and shotgunning a whole bunch of unrelated objections.

  I have a lot of fun with them, but it does become exasperating at times (because I just always know I'm right lol).

  Creationists - you don't have to be shy. I wont bite. What is your goal for posting on these threads? What goes through your head when you respond? Have you really done a lot of research on this or do you just look up www.answersingenesis.org for the creationist views? I'm really curious. Is your aim truly objective truth, or do you just think that evolution is evil? Do you feel you or others benefit from these discussions?

  rem, biting his tongue

  "We all do no end of feeling, and we mistake it for thinking." - Mark Twain
• 
  55

  Monkey trial

  by moman in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  it seems this whole debate, (creation v/s evolution) iz coming to the fore again, along with (religion v/s state) debate.

  my sister iz a producer for pbs & haz a documentary coming up on the scopes or (monkey trial), & i think little haz changed.. i am non-religious, but i can't help laughing when arguements are made claiming man & monkeys share common ansesters, although a few individuals on my wifes side make me wonder.

  i am not saying, i have the answers, but man iz just so radicaly different from animals!

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  rem

  seigs,

  You've got it - they evolved together. One example is how the chemical composition of the atmosphere changed by plants that released oxygen into the air. This completely changed the environment and the organisms had to adapt or die out (oxygen is actually quite poisonous for certain organisms). Other events changed the environment, such as Ice Ages, Meteor impacts, earth quakes, drought, etc. Of course, there are also an innumerable amount of microenvironments on the earth, from the oceans to the mountains to deserts, freshwater lakes, swamps, glaciers, forests, jungles, etc. Many of these environments only exist because of life (trees, microbes, insects, etc.)

  It almost seems to me like a positive feedback loop in which the more organisms there are in the earth, the more potential environments there are. This can also include simbiotic relationships and parasite/host relationships (which are kinda like environments in themselves).

  Natural Selection selects the most successful organism that exploit these environments which may lead to further environmental changes down the line.

  rem

  "We all do no end of feeling, and we mistake it for thinking." - Mark Twain