Posts by cog_survivor

18

Jesus ransom sacrifice ! ? For a dying man Adam ? and his offspring ?

by smiddy in

i thought this deserved a thread of it`s own.. these questions are inspired by previous posts , feel free to take credit for bringing it up guys.. adam and eve were expelled from the garden of eden before they had opportunity, or approval to eat from the tree of life , therefore as " perfect" ?

human beings living in the garden of eden and not partaking of the tree of life they would have eventually died.. so when they were expelled from the garden of eden they were in a dying state .

(is that perfection ?

cog_survivor

Hi Smiddy,

I'm not by any means an expert but there are a few different views on the significance of Christ Sacrifice on the cross. I've got it on my booklist to read Auelen's book on Christus Victor

You can read more on Wikipedia under the Christus Victor entry

Basically the three major ones are:

Ransom Theory - Satan holds everyone captive, Jesus pays the price for their release but being God, Satan has no hold on Him

Satisfaction Theory - (a.k.a Penal Substitution) which is commonly held in the western world. God's sense of justice for the sins of mankind must be satisfied for Him to relate to humanity. Jesus paid the price for the sins of all

Moral Influence view - Christ's death was the example of ultimate obedience.

The more I read about theology and church history, the more I find a richness of variety in thought. Which is really great because it provides so many alternatives to the black and white thinking that was instilled in me before..

25

I wrote a D.A. letter

by snakeface in

i used to be very active int he organization, "high profile" so to speak.

always taking the gorup out in service, always having parts on the platform etc etc.

almost 5 years ago, i simply did not show up anymore.

cog_survivor

I'm not so sure it is such a mystery

Someone probably woke up and said "Holy Snot! We're losing people! We need to try to get them back!" (Don't know if you saw the pew results that JWs have 37% retention rate)

Then someone got up and gave a talk and said something about reaching out to these poor lost sheep. Suggests writing letters or contact.

Snakeface, you probably seemed like an "easy one" since you didn't leave under a cloud or have anyone to snitch on you.

375

The Governing Body intends to announce significant changes in academic literature (DOCTRINES) - Brazil

by Dogpatch in

jw
friends

dear randall.

good morning!.

here is the daniel of brazil (former bethel).. this week at the forum of former jehovah's witnesses had an interesting news!

cog_survivor

Dogpatch, I had an odd feeling reading some the statments on that truthmobile so tried to enter the url as "theeternaltruth.org"

If that's right, then this a group of armstrogists. Hope the cops gave them plenty of grief so they can rack up their persecution points.

26

2012 ICSA Conference The Ethics of Evangelism

by Lady Lee in

well the title of this caught me attention especially since so many ex-jehovah's witnesses think any kind of evangelism or preaching is bad.

so the idea that some evangelism might actually be good intrigued me.

i have refrained from adding comments how jws measure up to each of these.

cog_survivor

I missed this too! So glad it got bumped.

This is really some great information. I love reading your posts and have been especially fascinated by what you've come away with from the ICSA conference.

While I'm a christian (albeit fairly liberal:), I've long been troubled about this very issue.

I don't think I should have to hide the fact that I'm a believer, but I don't want to pressure anyone to believe. I'd like to share this with some of my friends at church.

14

Cult Life - Disposable Relationships

by cog_survivor in

jw
friends

i've been reading a lot of the posts and agonizing with/for folks who are trying to fade or come out of the wtbs.

there seems to be this recurring theme of family still in, trying to keep from losing them.. this seems almost universal no matter the group.

there is no middle ground whatsoever.

cog_survivor

I've been reading a lot of the posts and agonizing with/for folks who are trying to fade or come out of the WTBS. There seems to be this recurring theme of family still in, trying to keep from losing them.

This seems almost universal no matter the group. Either you are one of us, or you are not. You are either in or out. You are with us or against us. There is no middle ground whatsoever. Bonds are formed in the context of the group first. They may go deeper depending on the nature and personalities of the participants.

What seems to end up happening is that maintaining relationships after a person leaves is a herculean task. The pain, fear and sense of betrayal felt by the insiders makes it easier to see the person who leaves as already dead. At least they can mourn and get on with their lives in hopes that their loved one will experience a spiritual resurrection.

I wonder how much difference it makes if the relationship is loving and fairly equal before the fader begins their exit? If the family members who refuse to consider the logic behind the faders actions, can they continue to still have a tolerant loving relationship and if yes, how would that be accomplished? What would be the necessary elements?

Any thoughts?

60

Do Jehovah's Witnesses know what happened to them in 1954?

by Terry in

1954: the year jehovah's witnesses stopped worshiping jesus christ.

watchtower charter: http://www.jehovah.net.au/books/1945_cha..._wtbts.pdf.

did you know that from 1879 until 1954 the writings of c.t.russell, j.f.rutherford, nathan knorr and the watchtower's own charter all agreed that jesus christ was worthy of worship?.

cog_survivor

Terry I find this fascinating because WWCOG made a similar shift in its teachings. When Herbert Armstrong started out, Jesus was considered worthy of worship and christians could be born again which resulted in a transformational experience.

But after his wife died in 1967. He began rapidly demoting Jesus as a figure of worship. He started mocking people who claimed the born again experience and who said Jesus lived in their hearts.

While I don't know that it was deliberately thought out in advance, but it seems that everything that could be possibly done to separate people with the idea of a personal relationship with Jesus was carried out. From a believer's standpoint it was pretty dastardly. But from an emotional and psychological stance it made another way for people to be separated from what their hearts told them and ensured that HWA was the church's mediator with God.

This was frequently reinforced by liberal application of the scripture from Jeremiah that stated that the heart was desparately wicked and deceitful above all things.

1

Movie - Paradise Recovered- cult exiting focused

by cog_survivor in

jw
friends

dogpatch posted a couple of years ago about this movie.

i've been following the news on it ever since it was made known to be in production.. the woman who wrote the script for it is a worldwide church of god survivor like myself.

she wanted to show people what it can be like for people who were abused and kicked to the curb by an abusive church and the struggles they have to go through to learn to think for themselves.. their motto is, "we're not anti-religion, just anti cruelty".

cog_survivor

Dogpatch posted a couple of years ago about this movie. I've been following the news on it ever since it was made known to be in production.

The woman who wrote the script for it is a Worldwide Church of God survivor like myself. She wanted to show people what it can be like for people who were abused and kicked to the curb by an abusive church and the struggles they have to go through to learn to think for themselves.

Their motto is, "we're not anti-religion, just anti cruelty"

I'm hoping that my current church will host a showing to help raise awareness about spiritual abuse

Has anyone else seen it? If not I can't recommend it enough. It isn't specific to any group. Although it does have a lot of Worldwide Church of god aspects. The main point is the control dynamics.

I don't recommend it for children as there are some adult situations as well as a ranting, screaming minister.

Anyway, if you haven't seen it and would like to, its available on DVD, Netflicks and iTunes. I would love to hear the thoughts of anyone else who has seen it.

9

My Family Study

by BU2B in

jw
friends

as i have posted before i am working to help get my wife out of the jws so we can leave together.

i have been trying to think of ways to open her mind and get her to think critically and use her mind.

i dont want to bring lots of facts and reasoning to her attention if her mind is not yet ready for it.

cog_survivor

One of the biggest challenges to my cult mentality was discovering that people outside my group demonstrated more fruits of the spirit than I or anyone else in the cult. I kept asking myself, why if we have God's spirit are we the most joyless people I know. (The standard answer was that satan wasn't attacking them like us but it still did not compute.)

I'm not saying this so that you will guilt yourself into trying harder that just leads to frustration. But what I am saying is focus on your own spirituality. Let it change you as you are ready to change and let her see the change. Your actions will preach louder than anything.

It is one of the hardest things to taste freedom and not want to give it to others as well. But most of the time, they have to come to see it as desirable before they even want to try it.

Like the others on here, I agree. Keep it conversational not confrontational. Talk about ideas and concepts. Help her to make those steps towards thinking for herself. Help her to see the value in your marriage and family life.

6

Penn State Decision and Will It Impact Anything Within WTBTS

by harleybear in

i was thrilled to hear of the rulings handed down at penn state.

although they did not receive the official "death sentence" it was pretty impressive.

now comes the question.

cog_survivor

The NCAA decision is not from a legal/federal entity but from an association/membership relationship. So they will not influence anything from a legal stance for the WTBS.

But to echo Cobaltcupcake, the cultural implications will be interesting to watch. I applaud the NCAA message that states that protection of children is everyone's responsibility. That corporate's are less important that kids. And institutions and individuals do not deserve a pedestal if they fail to act responsibily.

If the message is internalized culturally and the WTBS own shameful behavior becomes more known then public opinion may further shift against them. It will certainly challenge their ability to recruit. Especially, if the ex-jws keep getting the word out.

7

Local cult exiting groups - a wish

by cog_survivor in

jw
friends

reading some of the exit/fader stories my heart breaks.. i wish there were some kind of local support groups for people who want help in leaving behind their cult lives.

living in the heart of the midwest, there really isn't anyone to turn to.

i would have loved to meet with others in a safe enviroment to work through some of the issues.. all the implanted fears make people scared to turn to other religious organizations.

cog_survivor

Reading some of the exit/fader stories my heart breaks.

I wish there were some kind of local support groups for people who want help in leaving behind their cult lives. Living in the heart of the midwest, there really isn't anyone to turn to. I would have loved to meet with others in a safe enviroment to work through some of the issues.

All the implanted fears make people scared to turn to other religious organizations. Even government organizations are scary to many exiters. Most seem to struggle to rebuild a support network outside their previous "church" one. Others rely on non-believing family members.

Does anyone else wish for this? What do you think it would take to reach out to people to assist them in rebuilding their lives?