Posts by RWC

22

Are the Gospel Stories Fictional?

by JosephAlward in

there is abundant evidence that marks stories are fictional.

in this post, i will explain how marks story of jesus miraculous feeding of the five thousand (mark 6:32-42) was copied from scripture.. at the beginning of his story, mark wants his readers to believe that his jesus is just as compassionate as the lord, so he introduces him as a person who was just as concerned as the lord is for people who are like sheep without a shepherd.

the lord is my shepherd, i shall not be in want.

RWC

There is ample evidence of Jesus outside of the Gospels. These include references by Josephus, the Roman historian Tacitus, the Roman Pliny the Younger, and the Jewish Talmud.

As for the thought that the Gospels copied Zoroastrian scripture it must be noted that these scriptures were not put into writing until after the third century A.D., well after the Gospels were written. Also, when compared with other ancient religions, there is more cooberation for Jesus than other leaders such as Buddha. For example, although Buddha allegedly lived in the sixth century B.C., his biography was not written until after the first century A.D. As for Muhammad, his biography was not written until more than a full century after his death. So for Jesus to have non biblical corroboration and biographies that were written less than fifty years after his death is quite unique.

126

adam & eve

by gotcha in

does anyone here take the creation story literally?

if yes, did u do ample research and think carefully but still believe in it?

if u don't think that the story should be taken as literal, what is your reading of it and do u still believe in the bible as the inspired word of god?...thanks in advance..

RWC

Abaddon,

Thank you for the nice post. I recall our discussions in the past on the existence of God and enjoyed them. My debate with Pom and clash city is what I believe a debate within the realm of differences in theology that will not determine our salvation. They may not take it as such, but that is the fundamentalist view of religion.

I believe of course that the Roman Catholic view of the Bible is correct and right for me, but that does not mean that all Baptists, Lutherans, etc... are going to Hell. If so I would not see the rest of my family in eternity.

Which of course gets me back to your earlier question which was never answered. There is a fifth possibility and that is that there can and will be differences of opinion on how the Bible is interpreted and as long as those differences are within the umberella of orthodoxy, we can have debate without destruction.

The debate you and I had in the past was one of salvation and I realize you do not agree, but I stand by my belief that salvation comes from belief in Jesus Christ and not the other Gods worshipped around the world.

Take care and God Bless

126

adam & eve

by gotcha in

does anyone here take the creation story literally?

if yes, did u do ample research and think carefully but still believe in it?

if u don't think that the story should be taken as literal, what is your reading of it and do u still believe in the bible as the inspired word of god?...thanks in advance..

RWC

Clash City ,

First, I was never a JW. I was raised a protestant and became a Roman Catholic as an adult on my own. Your limited understanding of the Roman Catholic doctrine has been shown in your post. If you want to debate that I would be happy.

Second, you have not responded at all to the passages I quoted which show that the doctrine of total depravity and irresitable grace are not biblical.

2Cor 4:3-4 - "The God of this age" is Satan, not God who has veiled the gospel

I do not agree with your interpretaion of Matt. and Acts that i quoted. In Acts Stephen was giving his sermon to the High Priests and in Matt. Jesus was talking to the Pharisees. It does not say that this applies to all men who have been prevented from believing by God.

Your thoughts on scripture alone is an incorrect understanding of Roman Catholic doctrine. Roman Catholics add traditions of the apostles which is supported Biblically and these traditions cannot contradict the Bible.

Your are incorrect that I cannot read the Bible by myself, however, the Roman Catholic does offer an official interpretation in order to preserve the doctrine. Do you think that your interetation is any better just because it is yours? If you and a thousand other people interpret the Bible differently, how do you know you are still wityhin the realm of orthodoxcy? If y ou are saying that your interpretaion is the only correct way, you are behaving no different than those you condem.

126

adam & eve

by gotcha in

does anyone here take the creation story literally?

if yes, did u do ample research and think carefully but still believe in it?

if u don't think that the story should be taken as literal, what is your reading of it and do u still believe in the bible as the inspired word of god?...thanks in advance..

RWC

Pom.,

What you are saying is that if God has chosen you to be the elected that will believe than you have no choice to believe and you will be saved. This is the Calvinistic doctrine of Irresistible Grace. It is not supported by the Bible.

Matt.23:37- "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones thoses who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing! See Your house is left to you desolate for I say to you you shall see Me no more till you say, Blesses is He who comes in the name of the Lord!"

Acts 7:51 - you stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears!@ You always resist the Holy Spirit; as your fathers did so do you.

Man has free will do decide to believe or not:

Deuteronomy 30:16 - In that I command you today to love the Lord your God to walk in his ways and to keep his commandments, His statutes, and His judgments, that you may live and multiply; and the Lord your God will bless you in the land which you go to possess. But if your heart turns away so that you do not hear, and are drawn away, and worship other gods and serve them, I announce to you today that you shall surely perish.... I call heaven and earth as witnesses today against you that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing; therefore choose life, that both you and your descendatns may live.

1John 5:1 - Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves Him who begot also loves him who is begotten of Him.

You say that Man is incapable of having the ability to believe on his own because he is a sinner. That is the doctrine of Total Depravity or Total Inability. This is not Biblical.

Romans 6:17- But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered.

Mark 16:16- He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.

John 20:31 but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God and that believing you may have life in his name.

Acts 16:31 So they said, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household."

Romans 10:9 - that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

1 John 3:23- And this is his commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another

Believe in God is not thrust upon anyone by God but reguires a conscious decision by each individual.

Acts 15:11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved.

Romans 10:9 quoted above

Ephesians 1:13 In him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in him whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

John 5:40 - But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life.

You must believe that Jesus dies on the cross not for all mankind, but for only the elected few. This is the doctrine of Limited Atonement. It is not Biblical.

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as smoe count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

1 John 2:2 And he Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.

Hebrews 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, for the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, that He by the Grace of God, might taste death for everyone.

Do you believe in the Trinity? When I say Jesus was God, I am referring to his role in the Trinity.

As far as your grammer lesson, what makes you think that English grammer in the twenty first century has any applicability to greek writings two thousans years old? Dis they know of subject and predicate than? How is applicable based upon your understanding of grammer today?

22

Are the Gospel Stories Fictional?

by JosephAlward in

there is abundant evidence that marks stories are fictional.

in this post, i will explain how marks story of jesus miraculous feeding of the five thousand (mark 6:32-42) was copied from scripture.. at the beginning of his story, mark wants his readers to believe that his jesus is just as compassionate as the lord, so he introduces him as a person who was just as concerned as the lord is for people who are like sheep without a shepherd.

the lord is my shepherd, i shall not be in want.

RWC

Joseph, this is one of the most unbelievable posts you have made. Actually I have seen you make it before but it is no better this time around. You start from a false premise that the Gospels are fictional and then try to make a point that supports it. The Gospels say that Jesus walked and ate to, just like people in the old testamant. Did they copy that too?

The truth of the matter is that Jesus was rejected by the jewish people in part because he was not the Messiah they were looking for. He was just the opposite. He preached peace and love for your enemies. They were looking for a Messiah to overturn the Roman control over the Jewish people. Picking a few incidents from the old testament to copy would not change their mind. That is not why the Gospels included these references. They were included because they happened.

126

adam & eve

by gotcha in

does anyone here take the creation story literally?

if yes, did u do ample research and think carefully but still believe in it?

if u don't think that the story should be taken as literal, what is your reading of it and do u still believe in the bible as the inspired word of god?...thanks in advance..

RWC

Pom.,

It is evident that when you are confronted with arguments you can't debate, you result in insults. That is childish. The truth is you have a fatalistic and extreme Calvinistic view of election that is not supported by the Bible. That is not a lie, it is the truth.

The attempt to cover up ALL men with Satan is silly. Men are born sinful, but have the ability to repent and the ability to believe and subject themselves to God's will. Satan is far different.

The main problem I have with your argument is that you are saying that God chooses some to believe and others not. That is not Biblical. Do you not think that Satan believes in God? Of course he does. He has just rejected him. If Satan turned himself around and subjected himself to God's will he could be saved, but we know he would never do that and I am not saying he ever would. He is all evil.

I do agree that people who sin against the Holy Spirit have sins that are unforgivable according to the scriptures. But a sin against the Holy Spirit is to deny Christ, the same as not believing in him.

You are adding text to the Bible when you say that how would Jesus know how much faith Peter had unless he gave it to him. He knew because he was God and was all knowing. The text does not say he knew because he gave Peter his faith in the first place.

Romans 3:11 -18 is Paul's indictment to the Jewish people that the law will not save them. Taken out of context it doesn't say what you are implying.

John 1:13 must be put in context. The verses are talking about Jesus and the verses before it say : Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God- children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God. John 1 :9 says that this is available to ALL men who believe. It is available to all, not just a chosen few.

My argument is simple: Man has the free will to chose God or not. If Man repents of his sins, choses to open his heart to God and profess his faith in him, the Holy Spirit dwells within him and he is born again. From then on the holy spirit works in his life to increase his faith and help him walk with the Lord. That repentance and willingness is an act of Man that opens the door. See Acts 2:37-38 Repent and you will receive the holy spirit.

Eph 2:4,5 - God made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions it is by grace that we are saved. This passage does not change by argument

To answer your question Gotcha, I am Roman Catholic.

126

adam & eve

by gotcha in

does anyone here take the creation story literally?

if yes, did u do ample research and think carefully but still believe in it?

if u don't think that the story should be taken as literal, what is your reading of it and do u still believe in the bible as the inspired word of god?...thanks in advance..

RWC

First you call me stupid then you claim that ANYONE doesn't mean ANYONE it means some. That makes no sense.

Second, my grammer and my understanding of that sentence is accurate. You can either accept that or not. And you cannot take the sentence out of context if you are attempting to give it an accurate meaning. The proper context is as I have described it.

Third, when you say that faith is planted at the time of the new birth, you are proving my point. If a new birth is when the person accepts Jesus as their Lord and Savior and that is when the faith is planted as you say, then that is what I have been saying all along. The person professes his faith, accepts the Lord as his Savior and he is indwelled with the Holy Spirit and born again. If it comes at the same time then we have no real argument.

Your view is a very extreme Calvinistic view of election and predestination if you believe that man haas no choice in the matter. That view is not Biblical.

Fourth, I didn't say that destroy and upset were the same thing. I said the meaning of my argument is the same. Whether the faith is destoryed or upset, if it comes from God how can that be.

Where in Matt. 14:31 does it say that Peter had been given only a little faith at that point so he was given more later? It doesn't. You have added that to the text.

Where in Matt. 15: 28 does it say that the women was given great faith by God? it doesn't. You are adding this to the text.

Where does it say in Matt. 13:58 that they had no faith because none was given out. You are adding this to the text.

If you have to support your argument by adding to the Bible, it is not based on the Bible.

126

adam & eve

by gotcha in

does anyone here take the creation story literally?

if yes, did u do ample research and think carefully but still believe in it?

if u don't think that the story should be taken as literal, what is your reading of it and do u still believe in the bible as the inspired word of god?...thanks in advance..

RWC

Pom.,

We can engage in this debate without insults. Trust me, I do not need a grammer lesson. Your breakdown of Eph. 2:8 is simply wrong. It is taken out of context and not a proper examination of the sentence. The context makes it clear that it is the grace of God that is the gift that saves through faith and not works.

The NIV uses the word destroy. But even if the word is upset the meaning is the same. If faith before belief comes from God how can man upset it? It would be so firm that no man could undo it, unless you say that God gives out some weak faith and some strong faith.

I John 4:15 - If ANYONE acknowledges that Jesus is the son of God, God lives in him and he in God.

We just have a fundamental difference of opinion. Your view is a very Calvinistic view of election that presupposes predestination.

Romans 3:22 - This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christto ALL who believe.

If all men are sinners and fall short of the glory of God, than even those with the gift of faith before they believe in Christ are sinners. When does this change? When are they born again? What would be the need to be born again if the faith was always with them such that the Bible's promise of salvation applys to these people even if they are never born again? If you think that being born again is not necessary for salvation then you deny the words of Jesus.

13

Were the Gospel Writers Really Eyewitnesses?

by JosephAlward in

in defense of the inerrancy of the bible, many believers make the assertion that the gospel writers wrote about what they witnessed firsthand.

let's consider the case of the gospel called "mark.

" the writer of those jesus stories does not tell us he walked and talked with jesus, or that he witnessed any of the events he described, so why should we not believe that he was only reporting what someone else said happened, or perhaps what he thought should have happened to fulfill scripture?.

RWC

It is settled that Mark was John Mark the son of Mary ( not Jesus' Mary but another one). He was the cousin of Barnabas and a follower of Peter the apostle. He followed Paul on his missionary journey. he received the information for the Gospel from Peter. It was written sometime between A.D. 67 and 70.

Matthew was clearly an eyewitness. As was John.

Luke was a close friend and companian of Paul. He followed the early church and wrote Acts as well as his Gospel. It is dated around A.D.60

126

adam & eve

by gotcha in

does anyone here take the creation story literally?

if yes, did u do ample research and think carefully but still believe in it?

if u don't think that the story should be taken as literal, what is your reading of it and do u still believe in the bible as the inspired word of god?...thanks in advance..

RWC

Romans 10:17 - Faith comes by hearing the message and the message is heard through the Word of Christ

Philippians 3:9 - Righteousness comes from God through faith in Jesus Christ

If faith comes from God, would you agree that it could never be destroyed? If so explain 2 Timothy 18. The words of some destroy the faith of others.

See Hebrews 11:6 - And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him. It doesn't say that he rewards those to whom he has given faith.

Eph 2:7-8 - The grace came from God, not the faith

Rom 12: 3 is an introduction of spiritual gifts and work people are called to do by God. They are told not to look down on others work because the church is one body. Spirtual gifts are given by God. we have no disagreement about that.

If you don't know you are chosen, how do you know you are God's slave? Maybe you are deluding yourself. You have no assurance of salvation at all, because if God didn't pick you, all your faith is in vain. or are you saying that everyone who has faith has already been picked. What about those who had faith at one point but now don't? Did God give that faith and then take it away?