The pharisees didnt think Jesus was God either, and they freaked out when Jesus forgave the cripple of his sins, and they said "Who can forgive sins but God"? Nothing like handwriting on the wall!
Sangdigger
JoinedPosts by Sangdigger
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"The Trinity" - My Thoughts
by Olympiad inthe trinity my thoughts.
the thought behind the trinity is not so hard to understand or appreciate if you approach if from a philosophical viewpoint.
you must look beyond the obvious.
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Why is there pain-suffering..Apologists view
by gumby inhere is an apologist view of why there is suffering.. answer c. just didn't cut it for me.. basically he is saying "everything god did turned out to sin"; eg.
especially when that potential goes bad in every case"?.
christian apologetics & research ministry www.carm.org.
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Sangdigger
Hey Bleep,
Do you think it is possible then, that we can please God? If i choose to do good, will that secure me a sort of good standing with God? Yes, i believe we can love him even though we are dirt, but "herein is love, not that we loved him, but that he first loved us" We are incapable of loving God and worshipping him, left to ourselves. Romans 8:8 "The carnal mind is enmity(deep seated HATRED) againts God" That means untill God the Holy spirit, gives us new life in christ, (circumcision of the heart)we are in opposition to God. When Yaweh told adam "in the day you eat,you will die" he was talking to adam wasnt he? If he meant a thousand years, then adam would not have died that day, but would have lived perfect for another 900 years or so, and probably lived it up in the garden untill he died, or was excommunicated at the last minute. So when he said IN THE DAY, it meant that very day he bit down on that fruit. Please explain to me how WE (not adam, because he truly was) are FREE MORAL AGENTS. Left to myself, without God, i will live exclusively in the FLESH. Yes, i will fornicate, adulterate, steal, lie, cheat,ect....and even though i might not physically go out and commit such things, MY MIND DWELLS ON THEM. This is my NATURE. And Jesus said to even lust after a woman in the heart was to commit that sin, showing that NO ONE IS WORTHY OF SALVATION BASED ON THEMSELVES!! So left to myself, im not very MORAL am i? In fact, left to myself naturally, im in BONDAGE to sin. And since naturally, my flesh craves these things, i sure couldnt consider myself an AGENT of anyone as HOLY as God!! In fact,only christ could. Therefore, i am ONLY RIGHTEOUS IN CHRIST JESUS. He said unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and pharisees, you will IN NO WISE enter into the kingdom of God. Yep, were ALL in BIG trouble without Gods substitute. I myself, prefer the stance of a mercy beggar. There is nothing Good in me, and if i am to stand on judgement day on my own merit, than i know where ill be going. "Oh wretched man that i am, who will deliver me from this body of death"? -
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Why is there pain-suffering..Apologists view
by gumby inhere is an apologist view of why there is suffering.. answer c. just didn't cut it for me.. basically he is saying "everything god did turned out to sin"; eg.
especially when that potential goes bad in every case"?.
christian apologetics & research ministry www.carm.org.
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Sangdigger
Well Bleep,
I will agree with you on one thing. We are suffering because of Adams transgression. But im not waiting on God to start ruling or taking over sometime in the future. He's ruling right now, and in total control. Just ask Nebuchadnezzar,(Dan4:17,35)he taught that ole boy a lesson. Yes, Adam and Eve did have a choice, they were perfect, free, moral agents. But look at Gen.2:17 "for IN THE DAY THAT YOU EAT THEREOF, YOU WILL SURELY DIE" he didnt say down the road you will physically die, there was something else going on right at that moment. A spiritual death, a severing of communion with God. So, in that day, adam died, and plunged everyone from that point into sin and ruin. So are we free moral agents? 1)we're not free from sin, 2)we certainly aint moral 3)who are we agents of? Yes, i believe we are given a choice to do good or evil, but what is the ole natural man gonna choose? Evil. There is none Righteous, NO NOT ONE.(Romans 3:10-19) Thats why we are only made righteous in Gods substitute, JESUS CHRIST.(Romans 3:25)
To Answer your question Dutchie, i would have to say read Romans 9:21-23. To make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy,which he had afore prepared unto glory. When paul wrote this, he knew the natural response would be "its not fair" so back up in verse 18 thru 20, and he sums it up by saying Its Gods business to have mercy on whom he will. In fact the whole chapter 9 of Romans deals with Gods sovereinty in choosing, and showing mercy on whom he will. -
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"Jehovah's Witness School"
by Jacinta ini posted my experience on this board and took for granted that some may have never heard of the jw school.
i don't know if they exist in every state (apparently not), but the one i went to is named new world education center.
all of the teachers had to be baptized jws and the principal as well.
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Sangdigger
What a small world, my wife attended a JW school in Az. In her opinion, it was just a place for Jw's to send their troubled kids to. I guess they had some drug problems and discipline problems. Of course all schools do, but you would expect more from a JW school! Ha Ha
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Why is there pain-suffering..Apologists view
by gumby inhere is an apologist view of why there is suffering.. answer c. just didn't cut it for me.. basically he is saying "everything god did turned out to sin"; eg.
especially when that potential goes bad in every case"?.
christian apologetics & research ministry www.carm.org.
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Sangdigger
"Surely the wrath of man shall praise thee" (book of Psalms)He is in Absolute Control of his creation. I think scripture shows one of the main reasons he allowed Adam to fall, thus spiraling man into total depravity, is to show his mercy.
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The Nephilim - What can I say!
by Matty inim sure nothing surprises the people who regularly post here.
but what really shocks me now is that as a child i genuinely believed some of the most preposterous, stupid and moronic things ever committed to papyrus.. take the nephilim.
well they were mutants.
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Sangdigger
This is not a doctrinal teaching unique just to JW's. John Schofield, a nineteenth century Bible Historian believed and taught this, also Author Pink, a Hebrew scholar and author of many books on Bible doctrine. More modern preachers are Chuck Missler ( he has a complete study of this subject on his publishers webpage-Koinonian House Publishers) I dont subscribe to all of Chucks theories, but he has some fascinating facts that in my opinion, need to at least be considered, before dismissing this teaching. eg...The hebrew words "Bnai Elohim" are only used when reffering to Angels. This phrase was used in the Genesis verse.
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"The Trinity" - My Thoughts
by Olympiad inthe trinity my thoughts.
the thought behind the trinity is not so hard to understand or appreciate if you approach if from a philosophical viewpoint.
you must look beyond the obvious.
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Sangdigger
Now Wonder Isaiah said "Holy,Holy,Holy is the Lord of Hosts" 3 persons=1 God. Hey, i cant explain Electricity, only in theory, but i remember how real it is every time i get the crap shocked out of me. Just like the trinity, i know there is scriptural proof of the concept, but i dont have to completely understand it. Who needs a God they can completely figure out and understand? We never will in this life anyway.
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"The Trinity" - My Thoughts
by Olympiad inthe trinity my thoughts.
the thought behind the trinity is not so hard to understand or appreciate if you approach if from a philosophical viewpoint.
you must look beyond the obvious.
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Sangdigger
Well spoken Mr.Will P. It is a shame that titles have to be given to distinguish good doctrine from corrupt. For everyone else, i didnt mean to be "preachy", i guess sometimes the ole JW nature comes out in me. But i want to stand on Scripture alone, and not someones contrived notion of truth registered now as organiztional policy.
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"The Trinity" - My Thoughts
by Olympiad inthe trinity my thoughts.
the thought behind the trinity is not so hard to understand or appreciate if you approach if from a philosophical viewpoint.
you must look beyond the obvious.
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Sangdigger
Definately got some good thoughts flowing, but as usual on a subject seemingly complex, too many personel thoughts about what seems right, and what makes more sense. I have spent some time studying this doctrine as well as most "major" witness doctrine, and since this is a forum for biblical research, ill share with you some of what i have studied. As most of you know, there are different forms if you will of the trinity doctrine. I will have to disagree with the "modelness" or "oneness" wich states that Jesus is both Father and Son.(Even though he is called the "Everlasting Father" -reffering to his enthronement) In my opinion, we are dealing with 3 seperate persons, But ONE God. Stephen looked to heaven and saw Jesus standing on the right hand of God! (2 different persons) God said let US make man in OUR image. And the spirit is reffered to as a person. Ananias was said to have Lied to the holy spirit.(Acts 5:3) What really needs to be asked, is WHO is Jesus? What is his makeup? GOD,Angel,or "a god". The scriptures say over and over from the old to the new testament that there is ONE GOD. (That is, one true god) Therefore, he cannot be a false god. So scratch "a god" So is he an angel? Hebrews 1:1-7 tells us he is far above the angels, and says in verse 6, let all the angels of God worship him. God would never permit his angels to worship another angel!! Then in verse 8, The Father tells the Son, Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever. But the Father goes on, he continues to say on down in verse 10 thru 12 that "you Lord, in the beginning have laid the foundations of the earth, and the heavens are the works of your hands," ect... Now go to that same quote in Psalms 102:24-27 David here in psalms is speaking about Yaweh. Now read Isa. 44:24, and read how Yaweh created the earth all by himself!!! Not because the father and the son are the same person, but because they are ONE in Nature, agreement, a perfectly harmonious union. The same thought could be applied to a man and wife. Mark 10:6-8 "For this cause a man shall leave his father and mother, and the two shall become ONE flesh" consequently they are no longer two, but one flesh. Adam and eve had the same nature, but because one was the decision maker and the other was to be in perfect subjection, they were one flesh. And yet they (adam and eve) were both called "Man"(Gen.5:1) Hence, Christ is in submission to the Father and his will, he says that he came to do the will of the Father. Heres another good one, Isa.45:22,23 now read Phill.2:10. Jeremiah.23:6 says he shall be called "The LORD(Jehovah)our Righteousness" Well, nuff said, looking forward to more input on this topic. Oh, thanks Will Power for your welcome!
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The 'Truths' The Watchtower Can't Teach
by metatron inthere are several major doctrines that the watchtower strictly.
holds but cannot publically acknowledge or openly teach.. here are a few:.
1) women are not allowed to have equal authority with men.. their status or rank is secondary and inferior.. 2) homosexuality is evil - they won't condemn it openly, especially.
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Sangdigger
How about Immortality of the soul? (this could be under a topic all on its own.) I have spent a considerable ammount of time studying this one christian orthodox doctrine, and i believe one of the most important scriptures is when the Lord tells the thief, "Truly i tell you, today you will be with me in paradise". Of course we know the NWT inserts the comma after today, renedering it a different meaning altogher. And as most of you know, the Greek uses no comma's. However, nowhere else in scripture does Jesus use the word today, after saying, "Truly i tell you" or "Verily i say unto you" ect.... Of course there seem to be good arguments on either side of the issue regarding the state of the "soul" or "spirit" after death. I just found it fascinating when i first started looking into this, that so many key scriptures were changed to fit WTS doctrine. Another one that blows me away is Coll.2:9(?-i dont have my bible handy at the moment) Where the KJ and most say, "He did not consider it robbery to be equal with God" And the NWT says something lIke "He did not consider it a siezure, namely that he should be like God" What in the world is that supposed to mean? Yeah, i know. A "siezure" would have to mean something grasped, but to the average dummy reading it, it just muddies up the picture of whats being said. I remember when i was a JW, when pushing the NWT at the door, we would tell the householder that this New translation took all the old english out of it, and was much easier to understand. Yeah, right!!!!!!!!
Anyway, i am a new member to this sight, so cut me some slack. I'll open my mouth for what its worth everytime i get a chance.
cheers....