Posts by Sangdigger

32

JW's deny jesus as being king before 1914

by heathen in

i ventured to the local hall here last week and when time to discuss the watchtower a guy made a comment that the wt only believes that jesus became king in 1914.now i have read the bible and do have an interest in what it says despite my handle on this site and i have noticed that the apostles made clear that christ was king of heaven and earth in their day at least until the last apostle died .this just looks like typical crap that would only lead me to further arguement with them and in the end being demonized .anyone else with thoughts on the subject ?

?

Sangdigger

heathen, so they do believe that even though his body was pure enough for his spirit to dwell in it, he still ceased to exist those 3 days? I dont mean to keep harping on the same thing, just tryin to nail down the fact that they believe he did not exist for a period of 48 hours plus. And yet they believe that he was a spirit who inhabited a body he was born with? Man, im confused

78

Calvinism

by Calvinist02 in

the basic 5 points of calvinism.

1. total depravity- all men are sinners.

we are totally corrupt and wicked.

Sangdigger

Calvinist02, Youre right about being convicted of sin. Untill i heard the word, and God worked on my heart, i seen myself as a pretty good feller. Even though i had been living in sin, i still thought i was better than most. You know the old scenario where you compare yourself to everyone around you. Then, like you, after alot of pitfalls, and experiences with other religions, God gave me the truth strait up in his unfailing word.

Swedish Chef, great post by Spurgeon. May the Lord continue dealing with us all, and show his wonderful mercy. I dont want Justice!!! I need mercy!!!! Dont feel bad about cussing and other things in school, and being raised in a church. I was raised a dub, and did worse. Even though we didnt really know God back then, he still had his sights on us.

Coolbreeze, I realize to get on the same level with us you would have to believe the bible as Gods word. I know Swedish Chef has your best interest at heart. In fact, me and Calvinist02 do as well. We only wish for you to know and trust the true God of Salvation, and experience the joy we do. Thats all.

avishai, if you feel that chef is trying to force his interpretation on you, as alot of us have experienced in the past by the Org, take the versus he quotes and give us your view on them. Really, i think thats what this whole section should be about.

26

Could Iraq defeat the US

by JH in

jw
friends

could a war with iraq be more difficult than expected?

i found an interesting site, where they claim that iraq could indeed defeat the us.

tell me your comments after reading it.

Sangdigger

heathens concerns are well founded. It would be messy if all the arab countries sided in together. But U.S would still come out on top. Now if you would have said CHINA, now that would be different. I think they have more ground troops then the U.S does bullets.

37

Believers and their "Free Will" Dogma

by JT in

one of the most interesting dogmas found among believers is the concept called free will- on the surface it starts out sounding reasonable, until you start the ask questions and listen to the explanations that are given , after awhile you realize it has no legs to stand on.

we are told by believers that god allows each person to make thier own choice and we are not robots and therefore we are able to exercise free will, the only problem is when you ask the question, what about when someone exercises thier free will and it harms someone else, why would a loving god allow someone the free will to hurt someone innocent, at that point free will sounds more like an excuse to give god a bye in terms of having to do anything- i read this posters comment and i couldn't for the life of me see any logic or reasonablness behind the concept of free will when folks get hurt like this person has-.

one of my earliest memories is of my grandfather raping me.

Sangdigger

In anwser to your reply, i would simply quote 3 scriptures. Afterall, if i believe the bible is the word of God, then i would value what it says as worthy to explain the things that appear unexplainable.

"Faith comes by HEARING and hearing by the WORD OF GOD."

"How can they hear without a preacher" (sorry, i'm not close to a bible at the moment, so i cant quote the verse)

"For it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that are lost"

In other words, God uses preaching of his word to quicken the hearts of dead sinners. Without God in this life and the hope of eternal life, i would be as the apostle Paul said "I am of all men most miserable". If i thought that this life is all there is, and God didnt care one way or the other (assuming i believed in a Supreme being), then i'd live like theres no tommorow.

To anwser yerusalym: IF i interpret the scriptures correctly, this is how i would sum it all up:

All men are born dead degenerate sinners in the sight of God. The good we measure is only good in our eyes not Gods. No one (exept for Jesus) ever pleased God by what he did. Anyone that God has ever saved or ever will save is strictly saved by Gods Grace alone. So if God had not sent a ransom, all would have perished in eternal punishment.

I would call that love even if he chose to save just one person in 3 billion. Afterall, what does he owe anyone? Everyone deserves death and seperation from God myself included. So what about the suffering experienced in this life? Well since we are born in sin, and carry around sinful bodies is it any wonder that we live in pain, suffer from sickness, not to mention the violence man does to each other?

If you have a problem with what i just said, Look at Romans chapter 9, Paul breaks it all down when he talks about God having mercy on some and leaving others to perish. He says "Is there unrighteousness with God? God Forbid!!

So yes, i was born around christianity, although im the only one in my entire immediant family who does not claim to be a JW anymore. So what? What if God chose not to save alot of people in China? Is there unrighteousness with God?

GOD DOES NOT OWE ANYBODY ANYTHING

Sincerely, James

32

JW's deny jesus as being king before 1914

by heathen in

i ventured to the local hall here last week and when time to discuss the watchtower a guy made a comment that the wt only believes that jesus became king in 1914.now i have read the bible and do have an interest in what it says despite my handle on this site and i have noticed that the apostles made clear that christ was king of heaven and earth in their day at least until the last apostle died .this just looks like typical crap that would only lead me to further arguement with them and in the end being demonized .anyone else with thoughts on the subject ?

?

Sangdigger

heathen, are you sure they believe that Jesus as a spirit raised his own body up on the third day?

I thought they taught his body was disolved by gases or something strange like that. I do know that they believe he was raised a SPIRIT the third day, but they believe he never took a body again. The reasoning book did say he was a spirit, but materialized much like other angels in the past. How do they dodge Jesus telling his apostles " Touch me and see that i have flesh and bones, and am not a spirit as you suppose"??

One more thing, if they believe that he recieved all power of heaven and earth prior to his accension, or at least at his accension, then when did the 1000 year reign start?

32

JW's deny jesus as being king before 1914

by heathen in

i ventured to the local hall here last week and when time to discuss the watchtower a guy made a comment that the wt only believes that jesus became king in 1914.now i have read the bible and do have an interest in what it says despite my handle on this site and i have noticed that the apostles made clear that christ was king of heaven and earth in their day at least until the last apostle died .this just looks like typical crap that would only lead me to further arguement with them and in the end being demonized .anyone else with thoughts on the subject ?

?

Sangdigger

And whats even funnier, is no one else even noticed!!!! LOL

18

Poll: Which is worse, Dubs or Morons???

by WingCommander in

jw
friends

just a poll for today:.

which is worse, the j'dubs or the mormons (moroni)????

in my opinion both are pretty screwed in the head.

Sangdigger

The mormans believe in 3 different heavens if you will. They use the scripture about the Cellestial, Terrestrial, and Telestial(did i spell that right) to prove that there are 3 different worlds were people go.. Of course the worlds go from the best (Cellestial) to the bottom one. And you guessed it, if your a Moron, you go to the top. If youre a unrepenant sinner, you go to the bottom world, wich according to Joseph Smith, is still like paradise. Good morons are eventually made a god, who rules over thier own world.

Doctrinally, i would say they are by far the most screwed up. They are definately what i would classify as a "works" religion. And the Dubs are much more legalistic. The morons charity thing is good, but what do you expect, comming from a multi-million dollar church corporation?

However, if youre ever in a pinch, and need your yard mowed, appliances moved, or any job around the house, the morman missionaries are most handy. All you have to do is express interest in one of their books, or videos, and bingo! Instant help. Pretty nice boys, just screwed up following false religion. Actually dont take my advice, you might have trouble getting rid of them.

37

Believers and their "Free Will" Dogma

by JT in

one of the most interesting dogmas found among believers is the concept called free will- on the surface it starts out sounding reasonable, until you start the ask questions and listen to the explanations that are given , after awhile you realize it has no legs to stand on.

we are told by believers that god allows each person to make thier own choice and we are not robots and therefore we are able to exercise free will, the only problem is when you ask the question, what about when someone exercises thier free will and it harms someone else, why would a loving god allow someone the free will to hurt someone innocent, at that point free will sounds more like an excuse to give god a bye in terms of having to do anything- i read this posters comment and i couldn't for the life of me see any logic or reasonablness behind the concept of free will when folks get hurt like this person has-.

one of my earliest memories is of my grandfather raping me.

Sangdigger

FREE, MORAL AGENTS......Thats what many religions say we are. Including the WTS. I think some now are dropping the Moral part. The Mormans say we have "Free Agency". As i stated on another post. We're not Free, (were under the curse of sin) Were not moral ( try going 5 minutes without thinking something negative or derrogatory. ok, maybe 10 minutes) And finally, Who are we agents of?

I dont know where you stand on the Bible itself, but i agree with you totally in disagreeing with freewill. The scriptures are plain that man in his natural state is DEAD. It is also plain in its language about the condition of the heart naturally. "Out of the heart proceeds murders, thefts, adulteries, ect....." So basically in our natural state, the only freewill we have is to please the flesh wich many times results in henious crimes.

However when given new life in Christ, the old man dies in a sense. We still carry around the old man, but we no longer live to please our flesh, but God. Rom.8:8 "The Carnal mind is enmity againts God" The word enmity is deep seated hatred.

Anyway, i could go on, but thats the way i see it. Of course, i place my beliefs in what the Bible says. Like an old expression i heard years ago; Feelings come and feelings go, and feelings are decieving. I stand upon the word of God, nothing else is worth believing.

Cheers

32

JW's deny jesus as being king before 1914

by heathen in

i ventured to the local hall here last week and when time to discuss the watchtower a guy made a comment that the wt only believes that jesus became king in 1914.now i have read the bible and do have an interest in what it says despite my handle on this site and i have noticed that the apostles made clear that christ was king of heaven and earth in their day at least until the last apostle died .this just looks like typical crap that would only lead me to further arguement with them and in the end being demonized .anyone else with thoughts on the subject ?

?

Sangdigger

heathen, yes, we did deviate a little from the original post. But let me suggest this to you. You quoted Matt. 12:40 that Christ would be in the heart of the earth for 3 days. His BODY was in the earth. But my point was did he exist in spirit form untill his body was raised up? How else do you explain him saying he would raise himself up? or saying to the Father "into thy hands i commit my spirit".

On the original point, i believe he immediantly after his bodily ressurection took over the kingdom. Due to verses already quoted. So yes, the WTS is twisting scripture to fit erronious man-made doctrine. I guess the 1914 teaching.

The other topic of where he was for 3 days actually became somewhat of a debate between me and a friend some time ago. And i think its a good topic.

13

Who is Christ?

by Kurt in

this is a question for an active witness.

do witnesses believe jesus is the christ, the predicted messiah?

if not, is messiah still to come?.

Sangdigger

Amen again. It dont get no plainer than that.