when i was 17 my older brother went to bethel.
our whole family was so proud that we had someone in high places.
lol well it didn't last long.
has public records that are available on any person in the US
I've used it with good success on several occasions to find people who I had not been in touch with for a long time.
They charge small fees for each search, but I didn't mind paying for valid results.
Love, Scully
It is not persecution for an informed person to expose a certain religion as being false. - WT 11/15/63
my cousin, sharon, who died in september.......was disfellowshipped three years ago.
her brother is still a witness, and wrote a thank you card to an elder in the congregation here.
this elder and his wife came to visit sharon a few days before she died, and before she started to lose her ability to make sense when she talked.
I read Sharon's story on a website recently. Her experience really touched me, and I was terribly saddened to learn that she had died.
What was written in the card is truly a reflection of the narrow-mindedness of the writer, and the JW community at large. He probably thinks that to ascribe Sharon's defection from the JWs to a physical ailment (like brain cancer) is a loving way of giving her the benefit of the doubt for her actions. I would ask him, if you do end up writing to him, whether this belief of his would be sufficient for the congregation to reverse its decision to disfellowship her. After all, disfellowshipping is supposed to be a means of disciplining a wilful sinner; and if you have cancer in your brain which interferes with your thought processes, it hardly constitutes a 'wilful' deliberate choice.
I've seen this happen a few times, in my own case as well. Several years after I left the JWs, after going through 2 years of hell at their hands along with post-partum depression, my mom commented that she 'knew' that I quit because I was depressed, completely ignoring the horrible treatment that I was subjected to by 'brothers' and 'sisters'. Her belief is that because I had a chemical imbalance in my brain, I must have imagined all the other stuff that happened. In other words, I was 'crazy' and 'not responsible' for my choice to leave the JWs.
It's their way of clinging to the notion that it there is nothing wrong with them or the organization; that only someone who is out of their mind or just plain evil would want to leave of their own accord.
The single most offensive line in that letter (IMO) is "Anyway she paid the price Rom 6:23". I would certainly ask him that if we are still required to "pay the price Rom 6:23" then what was the point of Christ's ransom? Didn't he die to take sin away from "the world"?? I really wish they would get off their blankety-blank high horse and listen to themselves talk sometimes.
Love, Scully
It is not persecution for an informed person to expose a certain religion as being false. - WT 11/15/63
the governing body... victims of the misinformation that has gone back many, many years?
they might not be as entirely evil as many of you have pointed out.
even hitler believed the misinformation that he so strongly promoted, an anti-semitism that stretched back centuries.
I have wondered myself about individual GB members' ability to simply gloss over and ignore the valid concerns of hundreds, if not thousands, of 'sheep' who entrust themselves so easily and willingly to their leadings.
How can they not feel loathing at the thought of "spirit appointed" elders (whom they have approved for the duty) literally getting away with beating their wife? or molesting children? and possibly worse?
How can they not feel the same revulsion we feel upon hearing that an elder's wife, fleeing from a situation of physical violence and abuse at her husband's hand, is summarily disfellowshipped on trumped up charges of adultery, simply because she accepted the hospitality of someone who was concerned for her safety?
The group of old men on the Governing Body know the score. They didn't get to be King of the Hill without knowing how to play the game. Even if they wanted to get out of it now, they know that the price they would have to pay is the same one that was paid by Raymond Franz. The fact that their collective conscience allows such atrocities to continue; the fact that 'the holy spirit' keeps 'appointing' people who don't deserve to represent God on any level, shows just how much they care about their own 'kingdom' at Bethel, and how little they care about "the flock".
Love, Scully
It is not persecution for an informed person to expose a certain religion as being false. - WT 11/15/63
this is an evil idea so be warned.
i was just thinking back and it came to me how easy it would have been to steel money from the controbution boxes in the congos i use to attend.just volontier to clean the hall at the end of every month and skim away.no one would suspect a thing because cntrobutions are annonymous.and if you where in the right position at bethel you could skim some serious cash.and if somehow you ever got caught i think the sociaty would be reluctant to prosacute in a public court cause of the negative press.anyone else have this bad thought?
I guess it would depend on the practices in local congregations.
When my dad was the accounts' servant for his congregation, we had to be the last ones to leave every meeting. He had to collect the receipts from the contribution boxes, plus the magazine and book counters, after each meeting, because the Kingdom Hall was shared with 2 other congregations and the receipts had to be kept separate. Each congregation was responsible to the Society for its portion of the KH expenses. He also had to deposit the receipts in a timely fashion (i.e., next business day) in order to keep things above board.
I mentioned it on another thread, but there were times when the receipts were not sufficient to even cover the congregation's expenses. At the time, I believe it was averaged out to $4/publisher/month. My dad would make up the difference out of his own pocket. Pretty pathetic that a congregation of 75 publishers couldn't even scrape together $300 in the space of a month. (This was all prior to the donation arrangement for literature, btw.)
At the same time, there were families going on vacations to Europe or Florida, or Barbados. I know it bugged my dad a lot. His own father quit attending church because he felt there was too much emphasis on collecting money for the church. I wonder if that ever crosses my dad's mind anymore.
Love, Scully
It is not persecution for an informed person to expose a certain religion as being false. - WT 11/15/63
one of the things i'd like to see / do .... when they are about to give some poor young brother or sister a 'spiritual going over' in one of their damn judicial committes and have lined up three or more elders to intimidate the errant one:.
the 'victim' announces they have some people to help represent them as a dozen rough-looking apostates march in and stand behind the suddenly-less-confident-looking 'representatives of the most high god jehovah' looking over their shoulders to show them what it really feels like to have the the fear of god put into you.. wouldn't that be nice?
Don't you find, though, that if you insist on bringing 'witnesses' or 'representation' on your own behalf, that the JC immediately begins questioning your "heart condition"?? In effect, they already seem to have decided the outcome of any meeting. I've been fortunate enough to have thusfar avoided such a confrontation, and I have no intention of ever subjecting myself to one.
If their JC meetings are so "upright", then they really have nothing to fear by the presence of another person for the moral support of the accused. If the JC meetings are so "appropriate", they would not object to having witnesses or representatives for the accused there to speak on their behalf. If the JC meetings are so "righteous" then they would be open to the scrutiny of the whole world.
If JC meetings served their intended purpose - "to keep God's congregation clean" - there would be no child molesters or wife beaters serving as elders or ministerial servants in any congregation; there would be no battered women being disfellowshiped in absentia on trumped up charges of adultery when all she was doing was trying to find a place where she felt safe; there would be no sexually abused children being threatened with disfellowshiping for "slandering" prominent members of the congregations.
The writing is on the wall for them.... 'you have been weighed in the balances and have been found deficient'. They are indeed nothing more than 'whitewashed graves full of dead men's bones and every sort of uncleanness.'
Love, Scully
It is not persecution for an informed person to expose a certain religion as being false. - WT 11/15/63
hello..new to the board, though i have lurked for a while.
this is surprising because just a few months ago it would have been unthinkable.
if some even thought that i hinted in this direction, ....i dont even want to try and explain the repercussions.
Axelspeed writes:
As I stated earlier, I am at a crossroads of sorts…but I think I really already know the inevitable. Though it would undoubtedly be hard for me…To live not being true to myself I think would be harder. And if I’m wrong, I wonder …if the NW will be may up of some of the same judgmental, narrow minded thinking…does it really hold appeal ?
Your thoughts are identical - almost verbatim - to an entry I made in my journal about 8 years ago.
I believe that personal growth and development for most people involves the kind of reflective quality that you are going through. Don't think of it as a bad thing EVER!! Almost every single person on this forum has gone through exactly the same quandary. The key to making the best transition possible is to begin NOW setting up a support network, so that when the inevitable "Where else is there to go?" question comes from your 'concerned JW friends', you can honestly answer with "Anywhere but HERE".
This is a good place to start. You'll find lots of camraderie, lots of people who understand what it's like to be in your situation. And as you get to know "worldly" people, you'll find that they're not the bogeymen that we were taught that they were. There are genuinely good, honest, hard-working, caring, thoughtful, generous people out there who won't judge you by the numbers on a monthly service report. I've found some, so has everyone else, and you will too.
Welcome to our little corner of cyberspace. Feel free to vent and talk and rant as much or as little as you need.
Love, Scully
It is not persecution for an informed person to expose a certain religion as being false. - WT 11/15/63
we visited angharad's parents at the weekend and got a call on sunday night from her sister who'd been called by my sister as they hadn't been able to contact us .... the message was not a happy one:.
my dad has had a heart attack and was in intensive care in hospital.. it was a while before i managed to speak to anyone over there with people probably out but i eventually spoke to his wife who says he's doing ok and has now been moved to the main ward but is being kept in as you would expect.
he may have to be moved to calgary for some investigation / tests.. he had heart surgery about 15 years ago and i think 4 of his 5 bypasses have failed so he has to take quite a bit of medicine for pain and stuff.
I'll be thinking good thoughts for you and your dad, Simon.
Love, Scully
It is not persecution for an informed person to expose a certain religion as being false. - WT 11/15/63
what will you be doing new years eve?.
my wife and i will stay home, watch the big doings on tv, and at midnight, my wife will take a frying pan and a big spoon, go to the front door, bang hell out of the pan and yell at the top of her voice, happy new year.!.
hey, we live on the edge, don't we??
I'll be at work.
It's not so bad... we bring goodies in from home and gather in the Nursery just before midnight so we can watch the fireworks on Parliament Hill.
We also have the very serious responsibility of documenting the first births of the New Year
For those of you who will be here holding down the fort, and for those of you with plans that will take you away for the evening...
Happy New Year!!
Love, Scully
It is not persecution for an informed person to expose a certain religion as being false. - WT 11/15/63
if this child survives, it should have an interesting life:.
-reared by family who decided to let it die.. -reared in religion that said it should die.. -must preach against medical treatment to which it owes its' life.. bright future ahead!!!.
baby gets transfusion despite objection.
Frenchy's right. No doubt the local elders will be telling the family how to raise the kid thinking he was "spiritually raped" by the "Worldly" doctors. If they have any kind of brains at all they won't even mention this to him, but I don't see that happening.
No matter how they handle it, even if they never mention it to the kid, he is going to have issues.
Everyone around him knows that he has someone else's "filthy", "disgusting", "unclean" blood coursing through his veins. They will treat him differently because they think he's "tainted", and he's going to notice it someday and want to know why.
And no matter how they present it to him, it's going to hurt. Big time.
Love, Scully
It is not persecution for an informed person to expose a certain religion as being false. - WT 11/15/63
my first name is mirian.
i was born in the bronx, ny in 1963. my parents are natives of puerto rico.
my siblings and i were raised as witnesses.
Welcome to the board BQE!
I'm so glad you followed your heart and got out of the Watchtower at a young age.
Like you, I was born in 1963, and went through the whole 1975 and higher education fiasco that was rampant at the time. Except that I was too afraid to cause trouble for my parents in the congregation. I did go to college for 2 years after high school, with my parents' blessing and no interference from the congregation. I was studying medical lab technology. As I was entering my third year of studies, however, the "brothers" started harrassing me about my upcoming haematology practicum, which was ONLY held at the Red Cross. Based on that one teeny-tiny piece of information, I was given an ultimatum to quit or face disciplinary action by the congregation. That was in 1982. So my education was put on the back burner until 1995, when I enrolled in Nursing school. I was married with 3 young children, but still managed to make the Dean's List every semester of the three-year program. I graduated in 1998, ranking in the top 5. I've worked in maternal-newborn care nursing ever since then, and I have absolutely no regrets.
I was delighted to find several other nurses here too!
Hope you enjoy your visits here as much as I do.
Love, Scully
It is not persecution for an informed person to expose a certain religion as being false. - WT 11/15/63
