Posts by Scully

i will need to do some research on this but perhaps one of you fine folks know the answer to my question(s).. if a single (or widowed) jw woman wanted to have a child and she wanted to carry the baby herself (as opposed to adoption) and she decided to have artificial insemination, would the elder's try to df her?

what stance does the society take on this issue?

i mean, she didn't have sex.

Scully

*** g93 3/8 26-7 Surrogate Motherhood-Is It for Christians? ***

The Bible's Viewpoint
Surrogate Motherhood-Is It for Christians?
THE ancient Roman poet Horace knew nothing of surrogate motherhood when he wrote: "It is of no consequence of what parents a man is born, so he be a man of merit." The 17th-century French writer's maxim, "Birth is nothing where virtue is not," was also penned long before the concept of surrogate birth became a legal quagmire. But, as Mary Thom reported in Ms. magazine, with new reproductive technology, "the functions of producer of the egg, incubator of the fetus-becoming-baby, and caretaker of the baby once born" may be divided among two or three "mothers." The question of "virtue" and "consequence" has become both ambiguous and complex.

The practice of using surrogate mothers burst onto the world scene during the mid-1970's, raising social, moral, and legal problems not faced before. Some infertile couples were eager to take advantage of this nontraditional mode of reproduction. On the other hand, doctors, lawyers, and legislators have struggled to keep up with the expanding fertility technology in an effort to set guidelines that address the ethical and moral questions raised.

What Is Surrogate Motherhood?
Surrogate, or contract, motherhood is having an artificially inseminated woman bear a child for another woman. So-called traditional surrogacy occurs when the surrogate mother is impregnated through artificial insemination with the sperm of the husband from the couple who have contracted with her. The surrogate is thus the genetic mother of the baby. Gestational surrogacy means that the wife's egg and the husband's sperm are united outside the womb in a process known as in-vitro (test-tube) fertilization, and the resulting embryo is placed in the surrogate's uterus for gestation.

Why the rise in surrogate motherhood? For one thing, high-tech science has discovered several ways to help women have babies. Couples may desperately want a child, yet because of infertility, inconvenience, or too few healthy babies for adoption, they cannot have one. So they rent another person's body to have a baby. Since large sums of money are involved, surrogacy has been described in unflattering terms, such as "involuntary servitude and slavery" and "strip-mining the fertility of the poor."

In the United States, the New Jersey Supreme Court recognized the potential for the rich to exploit the poor and in a surrogacy case stated: "There are, in short, values that society deems more important than granting to wealth whatever it can buy, be it labor, love, or life." The Supreme Court of France stated that surrogate motherhood violates a woman's body and that "the human body is not lent out, is not rented out, is not sold."

Problems With Surrogacy
Surrogacy brings a number of problems. One is the potential for ugly legal battles if the woman who gives birth wants to keep the baby. Whose baby is it, the woman who gives birth or the woman who provides the egg? So the birth of a child, usually a time of joy, sometimes leads to a courtroom battle. Another problem: Some women who agree to become surrogate mothers find their feelings changing with the development and birth of the contracted child. The contract laid out some months earlier becomes harder and harder to accept. A powerful bonding relationship is being formed between the mother and the baby inside her. One surrogate mother, not anticipating this bonding, explains her feelings about giving up the baby: "It was as if somebody had died. My body was crying out for my daughter."

Also, what long-term effects might such a birth have on the surrogate's other children, the family that accepts the baby, and the child itself? Or what will happen if a child born by a surrogate mother has a birth defect? Is the father obliged to take the baby? If not, who pays for the child's support? And an even more important question, What is God's view of surrogate motherhood?

Does Surrogate Motherhood Honor Marriage?
God's Word tells us that he looks upon marriage as something sacred. For example, Hebrews 13:4 states: "Let marriage be honorable among all, and the marriage bed be without defilement, for God will judge fornicators and adulterers." God expects all Christians to consider marriage honorable and to keep it that way. What defiles marriage? Fornication, which can dishonor marriage in advance, and adultery, which dishonors marriage after it has been entered into.

Does surrogate motherhood honor marriage and keep the marriage bed undefiled? Simply put, no. Traditional surrogacy requires the insemination of the woman by donor sperm. The Bible's view may be found at Leviticus 18:20, which says: "You must not give your emission as semen to the wife of your associate to become unclean by it." There is no Biblical basis for making a distinction between insemination by intercourse and insemination artificially by donor implantation. Therefore, in either case, fornication or adultery is committed when insemination is accomplished by a male other than the woman's legal husband.

What about gestational surrogacy? This too defiles the marriage bed. True, the fertilized egg would be a union of the husband and his wife, but it is thereafter placed in the womb of another woman and, in fact, makes her pregnant. This pregnancy is not the result of sexual relations between the surrogate woman and her own husband. Thus, her reproductive organs are now being used by someone other than her own mate. This is inconsistent with the Bible's moral principles that a woman bear a child for her own husband. (Compare Deuteronomy 23:2.) It would not be proper for a man other than the surrogate's own husband to make use of her reproductive organs. It is an improper use of the marriage bed. Thus, surrogate motherhood is not for Christians.
[Footnotes]
The reference work New Testament Word Studies shows that "the marriage bed" of Hebrews 13:4 means that not only the state but also the use of marriage should not be defiled.
[Picture Credit Line on page 26]
Pastel by Mary Cassatt, The Metropolitan Museum of Art, Gift of Mrs. Ralph J. Hines, 1960. (60.181)I'll make some more comments about this article later. I just looked this up yesterday because I had some disturbing thoughts about the hypocrisy of this article.

But I hope this answers your question for now.

Love, Scully

55

I've been shunned from my sister's wedding

by Quotes in

the following is the contents of a hand-written letter i just received from my (21 year old) sister, who is getting married may 18. for some reason, i thought that she would let love and compassion be stronger than wt programming.

but i was wrong.

yeah, it sucks.. *** my question for the board ***.

Scully

Dear Quotes:

Just had another thought, here.

Usually with attending a wedding comes the social propriety of giving a gift to the bride and groom.

I'm sure your sister, hoping to maintain decorum and all, would like to receive a gift from you and your wife. However, since she's not fully including you in the wedding festivities, supposedly because of her conscience, perhaps it would be kind of you not to impose on her conscience further by offering her a gift that may be a stumbling block for her conscience.

"Gee, I treated my own brother like crap, and look at the nice gift he gave me. I wonder if it's demonized. Should I keep it? Should I give it back? How do I explain it to him? If I give it back, will his wife be stumbled?? I really think I could study with her and bring her into The Truth™ if they didn't live so far away..."

I think in your reply, you should kindly explain that, out of concern for her conscience and not wanting to cause her a moral dilemma, you won't give her a gift. You also don't want her to feel embarrassed when her JW friends come over and admire your gift. Plus, you would be devastated if she refused it and returned it to you.

Love, Scully

55

I've been shunned from my sister's wedding

by Quotes in

the following is the contents of a hand-written letter i just received from my (21 year old) sister, who is getting married may 18. for some reason, i thought that she would let love and compassion be stronger than wt programming.

but i was wrong.

yeah, it sucks.. *** my question for the board ***.

Scully

Quotes writes:

Again, I apologize for not clarifying this in my original post: my lovely wife is Catholic, and has *NEVER* been a JW.
Just think about that. She's invited to the dinner and I'm not... man, is this messed up, or what!
Oh, and I agree, I read between the lines that she has been "instructed" that this is the way it must be, according to "what the Society says." However, I'm pretty sure that just showing up and the dinner/dance wouldn't work, I can see my father and oldest brother instructing me to leave, as it is a private party and I wasn't invited.

I wonder if maybe you could use a little 'reverse psychology' then??

What I mean is to help your wife write a "nice" letter to your sister, saying something to the effect that "I just don't understand how Jehovah's Witnesses can call themselves Jesus' true disciples, when they permit and encourage such unloving behaviour as what is being done to Quotes! It makes me NEVER want to get involved with a religion like that." Get her to use her own words, and say it in such a way that she sounds positively STUMBLED by their behaviour.

I'd be inclined to wager that she'll show that letter to your dad, your brothers and the elders, and an "exception" will be made.

Love, Scully

55

I've been shunned from my sister's wedding

by Quotes in

the following is the contents of a hand-written letter i just received from my (21 year old) sister, who is getting married may 18. for some reason, i thought that she would let love and compassion be stronger than wt programming.

but i was wrong.

yeah, it sucks.. *** my question for the board ***.

Scully

Hi Quotes:

When she says "My hands are tied", it makes me think back to my own wedding. My best friend was very disappointed that I didn't invite her to be my maid of honour, and the only reason I couldn't was because she was not baptized (raised a JW and her father was the PO in my home congregation). The elders in the congregation where we lived had basically told us that if she was not baptized, then we couldn't use the KH for the wedding and the brother doing the ceremony would not marry us. It was blackmail, pure and simple.

The same body of elders, 7 months later, allowed my husband's brother to get married there, with his newly baptized (2 weeks!) fiancee's worldly sister acting as maid of honour. Because the sister had never set foot in the KH before, and there were going to be worldly relatives at the wedding who might potentially start studying etc, they allowed this to take place.

In my case, allowing an unbaptized person to stand for me might have "stumbled" some "weaker" ones. In my sister-in-law's case, it opened the way for sharing The Truth™ with others. The decision is made solely for appearances' sake. I think it rather odd that your sister would invite your wife (I get the impression that your wife is a JW in good standing, otherwise, for appearances' sake you would both be invited, so as not to potentially offend a non-JW) and say she has to decide for herself whether to attend.

I think maybe the elders may have put some pressure on your sister, the same way they did to me. However, she does want you at the wedding, and to be in the photographs. She has not said that she does not want you at the reception, she has said that she "can't invite you". Maybe she's hinting that you should just show up anyway?? What would a wedding be if there was no photograph of the bride dancing with her brother??

I would understandably be hurt. I felt just awful when I had to tell my friend why she couldn't be my maid of honour, and felt even worse when her whole family refused to attend my wedding because of it.

This kind of nonsense shows how unchristian JWs can be, when this is supposed to be a day of happiness for two people in love.

Love, Scully

7

Most JW are innocent

by lv4fer in

you have to remember that the majority of jw are really sincere, god-fearing people who are trying to the best of their abilities to live a christian life.

they are just mislead.

it is very hard to get them to see that they are misguided so it is imperative that we do this in a subtle manner.

Scully

I agree with you lv4fer. Most JWs are worshipping God in what they believe is the "right" way, and I do respect the ones who truly are good, decent people, the same way I respect anyone else who are good, decent people.

Like you say, most of them are misled and misguided. They are unquestioningly obedient to the leaders, and this is going to be what gets them in trouble.

Good post!

Love, Scully

16

WT U-Turn on "Great Crowd" (May 1,200...

by stevieb1 in

the following is taken from questions from readers p.31 of the my 1, 2002 watchtower.

it is the wt response to the question: "when john saw the "great crowd" rendering sacred service in jehovah's temple, in which part of the temple were they doing this?".

quote.

Scully

Perry, that was wonderful!! Thank you!!

Love, Scully

2

They died for their faith

by rodnico in

my cubicle neighbor asked me a question.

he wanted to know how to reply to people who tell him they believed the bible to be the true work of god because so many were killed trying to save it or translate it.. that was a chapter from what i remember in the orange book is the bible inspired by god.. how would you respond?

Scully

Every faith has its martyrs. We're just most familiar with the "Christian" ones.

Every Muslim "jihad" has people who die in support of the Muslim religion.

Even the Jews in Israel today, believe they have the blessing of God (and the USA) in their war against Palestine. The fact that 6 million Jews died in the Holocaust does not mean the Jewish faith is 'the right one'.

Jehovah's Witnesses are willing to die for lack of blood transfusions. That doesn't mean they're right either.

Just because people are willing to die for their beliefs does not mean they're right.

Love, Scully

16

WT U-Turn on "Great Crowd" (May 1,200...

by stevieb1 in

the following is taken from questions from readers p.31 of the my 1, 2002 watchtower.

it is the wt response to the question: "when john saw the "great crowd" rendering sacred service in jehovah's temple, in which part of the temple were they doing this?".

quote.

Scully

It almost sounds like they're adding another tier to the pyramid at first glance. The way I've read it just now (rather quickly), gives me the impression that the Little Flock has two tiers: the Most Holy (for the high priest/GB) and the Holy (for the remnant of the anointed, and others who served as priests). Then there is the Court of Israel for worshippers (rank and file JWs). Finally the Court of Gentiles (for unbaptized associates who worship with JWs).

I think messenger has a point too with the non-anointed GB members. But hasn't there been at least one non-anointed GB member for a while already??

It will be interesting to see how it's delivered/interpreted at the congregation level.

Love, Scully