Posts by SEAKEN2001

33

What's the deal with not needing Bethelites?

by blacksheep in

as a disclaimer, i am an ex-jw (da'd) for about 15+ years, so i really haven't kept up on what's going on in bethel (come to think of it i wasn't really interested in it when i was a jw!

recently, however, one of my relatives (current jw) commented that, although my nephew had applied to bethel (oh what a privilege!

), he was basically told he wasn't needed at this time because they aren't "mailing out the publications" there like they used to.

SEAKEN2001

Lady Lee, they did have that going for awhile. They were called "Temps" and "Commuters".

I live near the Farm. I'll see what I can find out. I do know they are still spending money on the homes there. Hadn't heard about them not accepting any more new Bethelites. Maybe I can get a few of my employees to spill the beans.

Yes, printing costs have dropped as the technology gets better. One man can now do the job of three. This is somewhat different from the WTS's habit of having three men doing the job of one.

I think it was Tom Cabeen who wrote the article about printing costs. You can still get it from the Beacon website.

[Aw crap, I can't find it. Anyway here's Tom Cabeens story. I didn't re-read the whole thing but I thought he figured out the costs and compared them to his work on the outside.]

http://www.xjw.com/cabeen.html

Sean

Edited by - seaken2001 on 17 June 2002 12:56:4

35

Is It Fair To Discipline Born-Into-It's?

by Englishman in

jw
friends

a born-into-it teenager or maybe someone in their early 20's, gets df'd for an unspecified offence.

later the df'd person protests that df'ing is unscriptural and inhumane, only to be told "you knew the score, you knew what would happen, it's your fault".. but is it?

maybe it might be fairer for a converted person to be df'd for breaking the rules, after all, a converted person has joined the jw's willingly and has therefore accepted the witness rules.

SEAKEN2001

My Dad & Mom both went to the 58 assemblies. Dad, I think, also was at the 53. I think Mulan and Mom went there togther with their folks, from accross the country, from Seattle to New York by car. We had similar assemblies well into the 80's. My Dad was a cook at many of the assemblies where I helped out in the kitchen and cleaning up the "metal trays". When I was a teenager I played in the band also. The assemblies were actually fun for me back then. When they started doing away with all the fun stuff I started to become disallusioned. The "hoagies" were terrible! and Shasta pop!. Ughh!

On topic, I agree with you E-man. There really is no choice for kids raised in the borg. If you choose not to get baptized you are branded as rebellious. And yes, there is always the sense that the big A is coming real soon and baptism is the only way to save your ass. The mind control makes it impossible for a child to really make his/her own choice. It's not till much later in life that one has the opportunity to make their own choices.

I thought I was choosing for myslef when at 16 I got dunked. But I did not have all the information. Had I known then what I later came to know I would not have done it. Also, there is no changing your mind. If you decide later that you made a mistake, too bad. Your damned, with no hope of recovering your own power to choose. The WT now has control. The only way to regain control is to leave everything behind and start over. If they would have told me that before I got dunked I would have declined.

Sean

47

Were you ashamed of being a witness?

by sleepy in

jw
friends

were you ashamed of being a witness?.

how did you feel about identifing yourself as a jehovahs witness to others?.

i often used to hide it because of the stigma attacthed to it.. was anyone actually proud to be one?

SEAKEN2001

Wow, it just breaks my heart to read the stories of so many who were embarassed or ashamed as a child. Such a difficult road to have your childhood stolen from you. I am truly sorry for you having to go through that. But, hopefully it made you a better parent or adult in that you wont make the same mistake.

I was never ashamed or embarrased. I was proud to be a Witness and was very confident that I was in the truth and hoped I could help other people get to where I was. I was very self-assured and never had a problem meeting a schoolmate at the door. I preached in school and on the streets. I behaved like a little angle but honestly did not consciously know I was arrogant. I really liked people and got along with most everyone. I was a good athlete and was better than most on the school teams and regularly competed with the team players during school hours and on the street. I was not allowed to join the teams but had the respect of all the players. I was never diassapointed to be a Witness and didn't consider myself as missing out on anything. Like I always say, I was a true believer. Nothing to be ashamed of when you truly believe you are doing what is right.

My heart is heavy now though because I know my older brother was embarrased and ashamed of being a Witness. I loved him very much when we were young and will always regret that I couldn't understand what his problem was. I thought he was weird for leaving the Witnesses and causing so much trouble in our family. Turns out we were the weird ones. NOW I am embarassed for having been such a total fool. But, live and learn. Now I realize I was arrogant and am more careful with what I say and think. Now I am careful to realize that everyone has something to teach me and not only the other way around. I only wish I had learned that lesson earlier in life.

Sean

129

SUICIDE IN KH PARKING LOT

by Sabine in

last saturday, a former ministerial servant and pioneer committed suicide in the woodinville washington kingdom hall parking lot.

he was disfellowshipped several years ago, and according to the old sister that related the story to me today, he was depressed because no one would talk to him.

i don't know how i kept calm when she explained to me that "we couldn't talk to him...he was disfellowshipped.".

SEAKEN2001

Sabine,

my heart goes out to you. Thank you for sharing this story in spite of the tragedy. I am happy you have found some peace in your life. Your story is inspirational for those who are still wondering if they will ever be able to cope.

Nathan,

If I'm not mistaken Woodinville is in King County. Why are the Snohomish police involved? I would check with the ME in King County. Unless the Kingdom Hall is over the border. I don't know where the hall is, so that may be it.

For those who may doubt the veracity of this story I can vouch for these people who are relating the events from their local community. I know some of these people very well and can assure you that if they say it is happening it is for real.

Sean

62

Do you ignore certain posters?

by LDH in

jw
friends

ok before we get off on the wrong foot this is not a flame war.

i read a comment by belbab on hillary's post this morning...he remarked that he had asked a question after the 09/11 attack, that no one answered.

well, i didn't even remember reading it, so i did a simple search.

SEAKEN2001

Yes, I generally ignore those I consider trolls. Sometimes the subject line gets me to start reading and then I decide to skip it. I have a few interests that I look for but often the subject line is not well titled to help me decide to read it. I mostly just wander around and if I don't land on something I can contribute to I just lurk or go do something else. But just because I don't post alot doesn't mean I am purposely ignoring the person who started the post. I choose to keep my mouth (or fingers) shut unless I have a clear opinion and this usually results in not adding several characters of text to a thread that really doesn't appear to be of much significance to me. It's just a personal choice in how I use my time and not a conscious effort to ignore certain posters.

Sean

21

So, Do You Yanks & Brits Realise That.........

by Englishman in

jw
friends

.

..if the usa win their next 3 world cup games, and england win their next 2 games, then the usa and england will meet in the final to decide who will win the world cup?.

if that happens, unlikely as it is that the usa will defeat mexico tomorrow.

SEAKEN2001

Hey E-man, WildTurkey is right. Americans generaly don't care about soccer. They aren't getting behind them because they don't know who the hell they are! Soccer lives in obscurity here. Little wonder you said most of our players are on British league teams.

I read the stats in the paper and saw that the US was 2-0-1. That's not too bad. How many do they have to win to advance? I don't know much about the rules in the tournament. If they lose one game are they out?

Sean

42

A question most Americans have

by roybatty in

jw
friends

.

if the world cup is so important, why isnt it being played in america?

:)

SEAKEN2001

Well, I agree that most American don't enjoy soccer. I suppose it's for the same reasons most Americans prefer Budweiser or Miller. They have poor taste. [g] As an athlete and a spectator I enjoy most sports. I suppose it's because I understand the hard work involved in playing any sport. Each has it's own unique qualities and I like them all. I personally wish there was more general interest in soccer in this country. It seems to me that most american sports activities are too commercial and focus too much on personalities instead of the sport. I dare any multi-million dollar baseball player to keep up with me on the soccer field. That's not to say that soccer is better than baseball. But it is a different game with it's own set of demands. One of which is constant running. I don't think Sammy Sosa could keep up!

I think the women's national team showed that it is possible to generate interest in the sport here in the states. Maybe if the boys could figure out how to win people would start paying attention.

Sean

205

Sometimes I Am Ashamed

by Dutchie in

jw
friends

does every issue of morality have to be compared with the thinking and teaching of jehovahs witnesses?

simply because you are no longer jehovahs witnesses does that mean that you flaunt all moral authority and engaged in any perverted pleasure that you have a mind to?

because your morality is no longer legislated by a pseudo religious organization does that give you license to engage in all acts of "immorality" and refer to it "as just having fun.

SEAKEN2001

Many fine expressions here. I enjoy this kind of thread because it encourages us to actually think.

I do not agree with the sentiment of many here who think we have to put on a clean dress to impress the visiting dubs who may be lurking. I think that just uses the dress before it's needed. Save the clean dress for when it counts. (like when you're trying to impress your in-laws, LOL!) The WTS has clearly vilified the entire Internet and any JW lurkers here have already seen fit to test the waters on their own. If they are looking for answers to thier doctrinal questions or trying to come to grips with their disallusion there are plenty of places on the net for every personality type. There is a limit to how much I will contort myself just to please a very insecure dub who hasn't even dared to question their own honesty. Sure, some folks will get offended here and run to safer ground. That doesn't mean we are all now responsible for turning that fraidy cat back to mommy. They made that decision. If they are really looking to get out from under their mommy they will find a way that works for them. I think it's rediculous to expect everyone here to behave like a nice clean-cut and well-pressed gentelman or lady as if we were all at a big Dictrict Convention again. That's not the real world!

I liked Introspection's comments about acting. Does anyone here really go around as if no one is watching? No. We all put on an act and adjust to the crowd. But everyone is different and some will see how far they can go and stretch the bounderies and then react to how the audience responds. Well, I find it a hell of a lot more interesting out here in the real world than I did in the borg where everyone is playing to the same audience, the GB. Out here people all play to a different audience and the variety is astounding and refreshing. That's a lesson XJW's need to learn and this place will go a long way toward helping them do that if we all continue to allow freedom of expression and react in a balanced and encouraging manner. I think for the most part we are doing that. Some people thought we were getting a little out of hand and the group is now adjusting. We are our own audience in this respect I guess. Whether we are playing to many lurking dubs is always open to debate but I suspect that the results are far better as we are now than it would be if we were to restrict the more daring performances.

Sean

27

A DARK DAY INDEED

by Incense_and_Peppermints in

jw
friends

when we put the fellings and whims of a few disgruntled "active" jehovah's witnesses who come to these boards before the intense feelings, thoughtful commentary or adult playfulness of the majority of posters here - ex witnesses, so-called apostates, etc.

don't call me jaded or an advocate of anarchy or harm to my fellow man just because i believe in freedom of expression.

i am a good kind loving person!

SEAKEN2001

Hi I&P,

many of us have had times when we got upset by this forum and have taken a break. That may be a good thing for you. But it's not really a dark day. We're just having a difference of opinion. This is one of the things that many of us have a problem with given our JW background. I think it's important to face the discomfort and try to work through it. Taking a break can help and you will likely talk it over in your own mind and make a more clear decision after your angst has subsided. I hope you decide to stay and contribute. I enjoy your comments.

I think Simon made it clear that he didn't want that particular type of thread to become the most prominant topic on the board. Obviously the thread was very active and will remain one of the most popular topics on the stats page for awhile. I don't think it was a personal moral choice but a business decision (if I may borrow the phrase, realizing this forum is not Simon's business). No business decision will satisfy everyone but it has to be made for the good of the entity, to aid it's survival, etc. All society works this way. This again is part of the real world. All this rhetoric about whether it is or isn't moral to post nude pics or talk about sex in public is completely beside the point with respect to closing the thread. If Simon really thought there was a moral issue he would have deleted the entire thread.

I do think that this discussion about the morality of the thread is appropriate and I applaud Dutchie for being strong enough to face the music, probably knowing full well that her opinion on this matter would not be shared by several fellow posters. This is precisely the kind of stuff that most of us have been deprived of in our life as JW's. As JW's we could not express our personal opinons on this subject, along with every other subject. If we step back awhile and seperate the act of closing the thread in question from this overall discussion (in several threads now) I think we can all appreciate that there is a lot of value here. I hope many of us can learn and absorb some new things. I hope I&P and Dutchie, and several others, can manage to get along even without sharing the same sexual moral code. (I say sexual moral code because moral are about much more than sex and nudity and this discussion has focussed primarily on that limited subject).

Sean

205

Sometimes I Am Ashamed

by Dutchie in

jw
friends

does every issue of morality have to be compared with the thinking and teaching of jehovahs witnesses?

simply because you are no longer jehovahs witnesses does that mean that you flaunt all moral authority and engaged in any perverted pleasure that you have a mind to?

because your morality is no longer legislated by a pseudo religious organization does that give you license to engage in all acts of "immorality" and refer to it "as just having fun.

SEAKEN2001

I like to think of this place as a slice of the real world. A place where the unreal world of the WTS becomes obvious and unappealing. I know I don't have the same ideas about morals as everybody else here but that's part of what makes this place one of the best places for those trying to de-program themselves from the mind control of the WTS cult.

I am convinced that the moral ideas espoused by the WTS are unhealthy. I also feel the same about Christian "morals" in general. I liked some of the comments about morals being personal and I agree with them. Perhaps being faced with the moral choices of others will help us refine our own and be less critical. I don't think anybody will really be helped by trying to protect them from what we may feel is degrading. These are not children and infants. The people we can help are adults and it's far past time for them to face up to reality.

People must choose for themselves what they will avoid and what is objectionable to them. But I pity the one who thinks they must avoid all things they find objectionable. A lot we face in life is objectionable. How we learn to handle it in our own minds and maintain out own positive outlook is what is most beneficial. I have viewed many films wherein I have watched some things I found particularly revolting. Yet I have broadened my understanding of people in general and I continue to have my own ideas of what is best for me. I do not share Dutchie's concern but I do appreciate her view. I only hope that this place remains as free as it has been till now.

Sean