Posts by SEAKEN2001

19

Education Issues.......Help!

by ISP in

jw
friends

i was out last night with a jw but who is not attending.

he is in his early 30s, is on his second marriage but now separated.

i've known him for 15 yrs or so.

I am in the same boat and there are many more of us. I'm sure you will get many to respond positively about continuing education. I am going to start going to our community college and will be taking night classes. We'll see what happens from there. I help run our family business also so maybe I'll be able to work out a schedule that allows me to take a few daytime classes. I am about to turn 38 and I think it is never too late to go to school. I regret not going to college when I was 18 so I am looking forward to it. The hardest part is deciding what classes to take and how to pay for them. If I decide I want to get a degree I don't yet know how I will finance the credit courses I will need. But I'm not worrying about that now. I'm just going to get started. It should help with depression too since we will be active and oriented toward problem solving.

Sean

12

Raymond Franz /key and gate

by Masterji in

jw
friends

how many of you agree with amazing that ray franz "handed you the key" and that "his writings became the gate to ...liberty?".

m

SEAKEN2001

I can't say that Ray's books were the "key" for me but they were very supportive and instrumental in my being set free from my former brain-dead self. I can relate to Amazing's and others stories about being a true believer and I laughed at his comments about Ray being the head of all apostates. That's the way many of us felt. He had been so vilified by our leaders that it was an amazing adjustment for us to actually consider him just another guy who had been duped by the Borg.

My "key" was my fathers own book and he made referrence to Ray's books and so I got them and read them. I am happy to have them in my library and if I had to choose a book to recommend to someone who is questioning their belief in the Society I would hand them both of Ray's books. Remembering how much we worshiped the governing body, these books can be a powerful tool in opening up the crack in the paradigm that believers need to begin breaking free.

Sean

9

Ex-JW fundraising ideas

by Mindchild in

jw
friends

in chat tonight, i enjoyed the opportunity to talk to someone here who is actively involved in doing fund raising for different ex-dub projects and organizations.

i thought that was really a cool thing to do and wanted to pass a few thoughts on to you good folks to think favorably in this direction.. im not soliciting for any funds here but rather ideas of how different individuals might raise some capital to donate to the cause they see important.

i know there are many generous people out there and that is all well and good if you have the funds you want to contribute but i was thinking there may be additional ways that we could raise capital for projects without resorting to asking for collections.. some of the time honored ways of doing things like this are bake sales, selling candy, or some other product.

SEAKEN2001

Mindchild,

I would like to develop this thought further but I am too wrapped up in personal problems right now to do some research. Having been a Witness for so long we cut ourselves off from our communities and I really don't know who else is already attempting to do what I have been thinking about. My basic idea involves a non-profit support network that can provide resources for anyone who really needs it, focusing on health and aging and retirement. My family is hit square in the face with this need right now and I really do not know what solution we will find. When my mother was sick with cancer, but not yet in a hospice situation, we found it very difficult to get assistance. She had health insurance but they would not pay for some of the basic needs my parents were facing. I have spent a considerable amount of money to help while living over 3000 miles away. My younger brother also lives accross the country and two other siblings have almost no financial resources of their own.

If I don't get some help I will go bankrupt taking care of my father's needs as they arise, if they are at all similar to my mom's. This will make it very hard for me to recover in time to take care of my own health and old age coming up. I can only imagine the frustration some others must feel when faced with this situation and I'm sure it is a problem also for many who have no association with JW's. I am hopeful that some other people have already begun working on a solution and I can hook up with them. But if not I will begin researching how to set up the network that is needed from scratch.

If you or anyone else knows of some people who are trying to set up a charitable network to help families who are seperated by thousands of miles and who do not have the finances to take care of their aging parents or sick family members, please point me in their direction. If anyone here is interested in developing this idea let me know and we can start a dialog through e-mail or snail-mail.

It's coincidental that just yesterday I started typing my idea into a file. Haven't got very far yet but here's what I have so far:

"I see a need to colaborate with others to provide help and support to people who find themselves outside of the radar in society who are facing difficult decisions regarding health care and aging of parents and friends or emergency care for family members of any age.

I see this from a position of someone who neither qualifies for government social aid nor has enough financial security to support the needs of the family independant of outside help. I am wondering who else is thinking about this or is actively promoting a support system that can assist this group of people. How does one go about creating the network of support systems needed when one does not have the financial resources to devote to the cause? How does one take a position of charitable and philanthropical giving when that one does not have "disposable income" or extra money to give?

The problem is exacerbated when family members are seperated by thousands of miles or national borders that make personal interaction difficult or impossible."

Thanks for bringing up the subject. I feel better knowing that the wheels are turning in the minds of others. Now I don't feel so helpless and alone.

Sean

30

AlanF et al, a little help please! Pronto Please!

by SixofNine in

jw
friends

i finally got that shepherding call.

1.5 years after not attending meetings, lol.. i'm sorry guys, but i was just disgustingly forthright.

i basically said that 1.5 years ago, i researched and came to the conclusion that the societies blood ban was wrong.

SEAKEN2001

Yeah, they can DF you and never tell you. That's what they did to my Mom. In my Dad's case he threatened a law suit and they have left him alone, and he even wrote a book! I was told if I publish anything I will get the axe. As long as I keep in the family they will leave me alone. But I think it varies from area to area and can depend on whether someone has an agenda which includes cleaning you out of the flock.

Sean

32

What Its All About - Lurkers

by Amazing in

jw
friends

its all about lurkers: there are at least three main types of lurkers, 1. a jw with doubts, concerns, feeling that something is wrong with the religion, 2. an ex-jw who is caught between two worlds, and does not feel free yet to live a normal life, 3. a non-jw who is either involved with a jw, or a relative of a jw, or is in the middle of being studied with by the jws.. defining moments: everything we write, say, and do is observed by the lurkers.

in a single moment, or a series of collected comments, we will eventually cause a lurker to have a defining moment ... a point in time where they decide that being a jw is not for them anymore, or that they can stop living between two worlds, or cease studying, and not join the religion.

we may never know who we help, or how many.. flame wars and character attacks: when we get embroiled in these, whether we are the instigator or the brunt of the attacks ... what are we really doing?

SEAKEN2001

I'm in general agreement with you Amazing, especially on the subject of flame wars. While I detest ignorant name-calling I understand that it is hard to avoid. Most of us get angry now and then and are bound to get tangled up once in awhile in stupid flame wars. But most of us also come out of it none the worse for wear. I agree with the comment made about this being an "expert" or advanced site, as compared to a beginner level site. There are other places that beginners can visit to learn without so much interaction. Randy and Kent provide that type of site and they are very valuable. But at some point the beginner starts moving toward advanced thought processes and starts flexing their new-found brain muscles. At that point the person can go in hundreds of different ways. For some people, the knowledge gained at Freeminds or Observer is enough and they just continue to drink of the written words and thought provoking essays. For others it seems to be more necessary that they try out this thing called freedom of thought and venture into the scary and uncontrolled world of open discussion and argumentation.

I do not agree with some comments on this subject that imply that lurkers will be forever damaged if they come accross a petty argument and a filthy name-calling diatribe once in awhile. I believe in personal responsibilty. It is up to the one reading to make up their own minds as to the value in anything they read or witness in real life. And we must be able to deal with the bad and ugly along with the good and beautiful. Maybe some lurkers will be better off if they run back to their "momma" and unplug their brain. This freedom is not for everyone. It may be knoble to always have in your mind the mission of saving someone from this cult and always say things that you feel will lend support to that end. But, in reality, all people are responsible for themselves and many will choose to remain in their cults for their own reasons and will never grow. From the perspective of someone who has embraced their own freedoms and regularly excercises their own brain, this result is distasteful, even repugnant. Nevertheless, we cannot control what other people think and how they react, no matter how nice we speak or how logical our reasoning.

The real world is not so neat and tidy. I think we would do a diservice to any lurker should we all decide to present our opinions in a thoughtful and courteous manner because people are watching. That's not reality. Fact is, there are good people and bad people. Even good people say and do stupid things and bad people occasionally surprise you. Only in the cults is there this idea that some utopia can exist among humans and someday civility will evolve to be the dominant quality of every human being. Our personal views are just that, personal. That others do not share our values is a fact of life. That others will do worse than scream foul obcenities at us is a given. All who lurk here can eventully learn that this is the way of the real world and stop living in their fantasy world. Some lurkers will never get it. But all who share here are responsible for themselves and will decide what is or is not of value to them in their own search for whatever it is they are looking for.

While I share the sentiment that civility and noble presentation is of value, I will not share in suggesting that those who participate in ways not so easily labelled as honerable are somehow guilty of stealing the chance of lurkers to someday seperate themselves from cult of the WTS. I do not believe any of us are responsible for that, even though our presence here may be of help to some who are themselves inclined to begin using their own brains and hearts. That help is not ultimately coming from a body of people typing messages back and forth to one another, but rather from within the lurkers themselves.

Just my opinions. I respect your thoughts on this subject and find them valuable.

Sean

19

Here comes the snow!!!!

by Mulan in

jw
friends

it is 3:30 pm in the northwest u.s., and it is snowing big time!!

it is positively horizontal.

you can almost not see across the street.

SEAKEN2001

Ha Ha Mulan,

You guys can still have fun with snow because you don't have to put up with it every day for 5 months! We've had two feet here so far and it is mostly gone, which is very unusual for around here. I rarely get enthused when it snows anymore. But I remember what it was like living there in Seattle. What, Seattle has like two snow-plows? And the city about shuts down with two inches of snow!

Enjoy it while it lasts. Ever tried a scotch snow cone?

Sean

33

Depression Anyone??[:(][:(]

by plmkrzy in

jw
friends

lately ive been feeling really paranoid about the post with worst congs i tried deleting mine but cant.

im probably stressing over nothing.

maybe my meds need adjusting, i dont know.

SEAKEN2001

plm,

I have communicated with many people over the years who have found relief through improved nutrition. Sometimes that means taking herbs or sometimes changing your diet. Sometimes this can work right along with the meds used by the medical community. Some doctors are learning more about natural health alternatives. There is no harm in asking. If what you are taking is not helping try asking your doc about some of the complimentary medicines that many medical people are now using with good results.

Please don't ever feel that what you share with others from your heart is harmful or bad. That's the controlling mechanism of the JW's talking. They are wrong. You are enough and we all benefit from what you and others who have pulled themselves from the clutches of cult life have to share.

Sean

20

What did you give up to become a witness?

by sleepy in

jw
friends

what did you give up to become a witness?.

was it something you are still glad about or something you regret.. i'll start of with things i gave up.

(even though i was brought up in the truth talks and the mags made you guilty about certain things).

SEAKEN2001

College, music and athletics. I had a future in athletics and I would have loved to pursue it. But, bad associations and all. Too late now for athletics because my body won't cooperate anymore. But still have a chance at college and music. I'm just glad I got out before I lost my youth completely (although it's close at 37!).

How many here have gone to college or university at 40 or older? How did you afford it?

Sean

28

What would you think if?

by getingout in

jw
friends

if a dud came to your door and said, we no longer shun ex members let's become friends again.

if the wt said the preaching work has ended.. if wt encouraged the members to vote in all elections.

if the blood ban was removed.

SEAKEN2001

>If a dud came to your door and said, we no longer shun ex members let's become friends again

>If the WT said the preaching work has ended.

>If WT encouraged the members to vote in all elections

>If the blood ban was removed

>If the WT annouced it was okay to celebrate holidays.

>If the WT said, more than 144,000 will live in heaven

>How would you react towards witnesses? Would you consider going back, think it was a trick, what?

I would have no problem renewing a relationship. Don't know if we could ever make it to friends. That would depend on how open-minded the person was. I've gone pretty far away from what I once believed as a dub.

I would never go back to join the religion. On a social level, maybe. And yes, I'd suspect it was a trick to win me over and get me back in line for salvation. They can think whatever they want. I don't need saving.

Sean

16

Update on my friend....Billygoat was right

by Mulan in

jw
friends

had to edit this.

sorry.. gossip gossip gossip.. i'm not saying we aren't their definition of apostate, but they have no evidence against us, so they make it up.. "no one can take advantage of you, without your permission.

" ann landers

SEAKEN2001

So when are they going to make an announcement that you are "as good as" DF'd? You are "marked" but the "elders" (cough) have no right to discipline your friend for visiting or working for a marked person. They just don't have the balls to make it official. Maybe they are still wondering if they really will get sued? And they think my Dad's book is some big wedge of resistance? What a laugh! I'm tempted to publish it since the rumors already have it so. Ignorant SOBs. Do they know you recommend Ray's book to people? That should get thier knickers in a bunch.

I'm glad to hear that your friend's husband is pointing out the obvious and not cow-towing to them. I hope they can eventually pull themselves away from those pricks they currently call "brothers".

Sean