Seeker

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Posts by Seeker

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  107

  FATAL ASSUMPTIONS

  by You Know in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  jesus further related in the 15th chapter of john: "nevertheless, i have spoken these things to you that, when the hour for them arrives, you may remember i told them to you.

  these things, however, i did not tell you at first, because i was with you.

  so, the point is that jesus has not told his anointed ones certain things yet because the hour for them has not arrived.

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  Seeker

  Give it up, You Know. 2001 is soon over and with it your last vestige of credibility. Procrastinator's Anonymous is waiting with open arms.
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  19

  Lurkers Ask yourself this ??????????

  by JT in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  http://www.wwwddd.com/bible/secrets/home.shtml .

  why is it that the wt society not the done above?????????.

  now think about it esp when you consider the role that the net has played in getting info to millions with the click of a mouse.

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  Seeker

  GodRules

  In case you morons haven't noticed, the Watchtower does have a website with literature.

  In case you hadn't noticed, I specifically pointed that out in my first post in this thread. Yet you didn't comment on why they don't put each Watchtower and Awake on their site as they come out. Why do they avoid doing that, when it would be a chance to increase their circulation far beyond anything they have now?
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  63

  Watchtower PR Statement 8-7-01

  by silentlambs in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  public affairs office.

  for immediate release august7, 2001 .

  sexual abuse of children is a terrible crime that can leave lasting emotional scars on its victims.

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  Seeker

  GodRules,

  The fuss is about all those victims where the elders did absolutely nothing. Those revised policies in the 90s did nothing for the little girls in New Hampshire when their father was abusing them.

  And prior to the mid-90s, it was a real horror show for victims of childhood sexual abuse within the organization. I personally know of a man who raped several of his daughters while they were children. When one finally came forward, the elders made sure nobody reported anything. The abuser was DFed, and reinstated within 3 months. The girl who reported it was viewed as a bad example.

  That's the reality of the WTS for so many years. Thus the fuss.
• 
  63

  Watchtower PR Statement 8-7-01

  by silentlambs in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  public affairs office.

  for immediate release august7, 2001 .

  sexual abuse of children is a terrible crime that can leave lasting emotional scars on its victims.

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  Seeker

  Hmmm...they seem to be adding more details each time, making it sound better and better. Let's dissect this latest PR release:

  Sexual abuse of children is a terrible crime that can leave lasting emotional scars on its victims.

  Which we are beginning to finally realize now that is being pushed in our face. Funny how Jehovah's "progressive" organization is so far behind the times on this one.

  Often, child molesters are attracted to organizations that have children as members, which makes protecting children from sexual abuse a complex and important societal concern.

  Child molestors are attracted to our organization because we put them in such close proximity to children who are taught to trust any one of Jehovah's Witnesses, since they are not worldly people who do bad things.

  Jehovah’s Witnesses condemn child molestation,

  Of course they do. Everyone does. Of course, you gotta prove it first!

  and they do not tolerate such activity within their membership.

  Did we mention you have to prove it first?

  If there is sufficient evidence that someone has exploited children in this way, he may be disfellowshipped (excommunicated).

  Sufficient evidence being either a confession or two eyewitnesses.

  A sincerely repentant former child molester may be allowed to remain a member of the faith, but he is strongly warned against being alone with children unless one of the parents or another responsible adult is also present.

  And we all know how a firm scolding will stop a child molestor in his tracks...Meanwhile, said "repentant" "former" child molestor will have been privately reproved and may have had sanctions against him (no commenting, you bad man), but no one in the congregation will be made aware of his crimes (other than the victims on the other side of the aisle). Anyone who talks about his crimes will be slapped with charges of slander and possibly disfellowshipped.

  Moreover, as a protection to our children, former child molesters are not permitted to receive positions of responsibility in our religion.

  That's our new policy. Unlike our old policy in which child molestors were encouraged to give parts, give prayers, and in all ways made to look like a hero. Of course, even under the new policy, did we mention you have to prove it first?

  If an accusation of child molestation is made against a member of the congregation, the elders immediately work to assure the safety of the victim.

  Unless it's just the victim's word against the molestors. In which case the molestor's spouse may be told to just pray more.

  Also, they make every effort to comply with the law.

  To the letter. If the law says nothing about reporting molestors, we obey the law and refuse to report it!

  This includes complying with laws that mandate reporting the incident to the proper authorities.

  But only when we have to, and call the Legal department first to find out if you have to.

  This is even done when a child is the only one to report the wrong conduct or when the elders received the allegation of molestation in confidence.

  Unless they live in a state that doesn't make them do it.

  The victim or the victim’s family may also report the matter to the authorities. The have an absolute right to report and none should interfere with this.

  Including all those elders we encourage to interfere through the decades. Now that we are in hot water, we have a new policy: it was all you elder's fault!
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  13

  Cooking the Books

  by individuals wife in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  mulan and seeker4 got me thinking in the previous thread called 'what did you do first?...'..

  they both made the point that they were turning in reports when not going out on field service (tsk, tsk!

  ) and i remembered the times i 'cooked the books' a little and rounded up the figures, fiddled my time a little, counting time when it was not proper ministry.

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  Seeker

  If a significant amount of reported time is made up, it could help explain the incredible inefficiency of the preaching work. If you correlate the numbers of hours spent each year with the number baptized, you are left with the idea that the WTS picked the worst possible way to spread the message.
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  107

  FATAL ASSUMPTIONS

  by You Know in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  jesus further related in the 15th chapter of john: "nevertheless, i have spoken these things to you that, when the hour for them arrives, you may remember i told them to you.

  these things, however, i did not tell you at first, because i was with you.

  so, the point is that jesus has not told his anointed ones certain things yet because the hour for them has not arrived.

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  Seeker

  It's not about believing what I or anyone else believes. It's about respecting our creator and doing his will.

  You're right, it's God with a gun to our heads saying, "Do what I say and no one gets hurt." Appalling!

  As for You Know, he shuffles in here every so often to twist a few scriptures, make some "obvious" announcements, and then he shuffles off to wait out his latest failures. Meanwhile, the real FATAL ASSUMPTIONS belong to the WTS for assuming they could cover over the child abuse and no one would notice.
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  19

  Lurkers Ask yourself this ??????????

  by JT in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  http://www.wwwddd.com/bible/secrets/home.shtml .

  why is it that the wt society not the done above?????????.

  now think about it esp when you consider the role that the net has played in getting info to millions with the click of a mouse.

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  2. 
  3. 
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  Seeker

  If the WTS had as its primary goal the preaching of the good news of the kingdom, they would put each new magazine online. The fact that they don't means the message is not the most important thing to them. Consider some possible objections, and how they fall apart:

  Objection 1: Someone could crack in and change the wording.
  Reality: They already have some literature on their web site, no problems. Even if it became a problem, they would quickly restore.

  Objection 2: Not everyone has a computer.
  Reality: Not eveyone had a radio in the 1930s, but they still broadcast radio programs. Besides, you use different methods to read different types of persons. In fact, owning a computer tends to put a person in an upper-income bracket, the same sorts of persons least likely to be reached via the door-to-door method. The Web would be perfect for such ones.

  Objection 3: It's too time-consuming.
  Reality: Of course it isn't. Bethel is full of time-consuming tasks that get done when they need it to get done.

  Here the WTS has the perfect new medium to broadcast their message far and wide and they ignore it. Why? Here are my thoughts:

  1. They are too wary of the Net in general to totally embrace it. It would send the wrong message to the friends.

  2. The preaching work is primarily for the purpose of keeping the friends busy and tracking their activities, as well as bringing in money to HQ. That's right, the primary reason is NOT to spread the message. If that were the primary reason, the Net would be embraced immediately. No, they want the friends to have to bring the magazines by hand to householders. It won't do at all to have the householder bring up the latest copy on the Web. No money. No busywork for the publishers. Won't do at all.

  Lurkers, ask yourself if this is the case and, if so, why isn't it the primary purpose of the WTS to spread the good news?
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  16

  COs, SL, Mulan, AlanF, Max,Tina,UB,Zev,&New...

  by Seeker4 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this is from seeker4, whom some of you may remember from h2o.

  have been quiet for several months, and not even reading the boards.

  too busy.

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  Seeker

  Nice to see you again, S4. Wondered how you were doing.

  And for those who tend not to focus on such things, please note that Seeker4 and Seeker are two different individuals altogether (right Mulan?). :)
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  28

  Truth hurts

  by Decidedly_Unsure in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i can't believe it's all a sham!

  remember before i was baptized, i wondered onto a hostile site and felt a sickening dread, when i confronted the sister who studied with me she reassured me that i shouldn't worry, all the stuff on those sites are written by bitter outcasts who have nothing constructive to offer, "after all", she said, ""did you ever read anything upbuilding there?

  " well, here i am baptized, back on the net 4 years later and wham!!

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  Seeker

  Positive alternatives are offered all the time here, but it's any number of positive alternatives. Some say to try this new religious belief, others say try this belief. They are all positive about it. The problem is, you don't find the same conformity you see among the Witnesses, and so it doesn't seem like it's a unified message. It isn't. We've had enough of forced conformity. Now we respect an individual's right to decide for him- or herself what to believe. That's why you don't find one positive message here, but many different ones. Use your God-given mind and decide for yourself which way is the best way to follow the Bible.

  As for only tearing down, what could be more positive that offering truth? If you happen to be exposing some liars in the process, well that's what telling the truth does. Here's an illustration:

  Two kids are playing in a mud puddle, and one of their parents comes along and says:

  "Hey, get out of the puddle. You're all dirty."

  One kid says to the other kid:

  "Don't listen to her. All she's doing is criticizing and tearing down. What good alternative is she offering? All she can do is tell you you're dirty. Don't listen to her."

  In fact, telling someone they are up to their armpits in dirt is a positive thing, for it helps them come to their senses and begin to make positive changes in their lives. Which direction they go from there is entirely up to them -- no one will force them to follow anything. You are used to the WTS concept of being told 'this is the way.' But all that accomplished was to take you on a ride down a dead-end path. Never again, we say.

  Truth is always positive.
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  6

  Ahhhhhhhhh, another happy dub start. :(

  by outcast in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  .

  http://www.witnessesonline.com/cgi-bin/cgiwrap/witnessesonline/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=11&t=000047

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  Seeker

  My favorite comment:

  Try to focus on the love you have for each other, and remember that it's your obligation to be submissive. So after talking this through, getting his feelings, and airing yours, you really need to, lovingly, bow to his wishes, and help your family understand. Difficult? Yes, but worth the effort because this may very well set the tone for your whole married life.

  I'll say it will set the tone for her whole married life! Her idiot fiance is allowing his friends to meddle in their lives and give stupid advice. Instead of standing up to this idiots and telling them to mind their own business, this cowering example of manhood is turning to his fiance and saying to cool it with the parties. Given this, what advice does she get? "Bow to his wishes." Setting the tone for her whole married life indeed!