Seeker4

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Posts by Seeker4

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  78

  A fair and reasonable question for Jehovah's Witnesses

  by Gregor in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  your organization has always been intently focused on "witnessing" and this includes going right up to strangers homes, knocking on their door attempting to engage them in a discussion of their beliefs.

  you come prepared to point out the error of whatever faith they hold.

  doctrines such as immortality of the soul, the trinity and eternal torment in hell you declare as false teachings and can back up your assertions with scriptures and skilled argument.

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  Seeker4

  Welcome, yourmomma.
  
  Glad to have you here. I hope you stay and keep talking. This place can be a great one to work out your ideas on. Lots of good minds here.
  
  Welcome!
  
  S4
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  31

  Getting married too young

  by freedomfighter in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  have noticed an inevitable trend in australia.

  (probably is all over the world).

  as a jw u can't have sex before marriage right?

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  Seeker4

  I was 20 when I married, and my wife was 18.
  
  I was talking to my son-in-law Sunday about a faded JW friend from my youth. My s-i-l is still a JW. The only statement I made to him was, "My friend had a typical JW marriage." My s-i-l immediately interjects, "Oh, he got married way too young?!"
  
  Exactly! My friend was in his early 20s when he married a 16 YEAR OLD JW girl. My s-i-l was 19 when he married my 19 year old daughter.
  
  Yeah, it's an issue.
  
  Also, it ought to be grounds for divorce for any woman to call her husband, "hubby," or for any man to refer to his wife as "wifey," "mother," or "the old lady"!!
  
  LOL!
  
  S4
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  62

  The Steps Between JWism and Atheism

  by compound complex in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  greetings, friends:.

  i recently put up a thread entitled "when can i comment?

  " new to the thought process of critical thinking, i have felt overwhelmed by the wealth of information now available to a mind opened up to society-banned material.

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  Seeker4

  My process was very similar to those decribed by Awakened and nvrgnbk. And VERY nicely done by both of you, I must add.
  
  I was still a true believer when I stepped down as an elder. That lasted for a year or so. Then the 1914 Generation change occured, and I decided it was time for me to investigate all the serious questions I had.
  
  As was mentioned, this had nothing to do with being bitter about god, it was simply a quiet, thorough intellectual process. Like others have mentioned, I started with Genesis. Why? Simple. The Genesis stories are the basis for the rest of the Bible. No Adam, then no need for a Jesus. Christianity becomes little more than an OK philosophy if there is no need for a redeemer, and taoism did a much better job of creating a practical life philosophy without any of the religious overtones.
  
  The evidence that there was no Adam, no Flood, no Ark, etc. etc. are simply overwhelming. It quickly became obvious that Genesis is mostly a book of myths. When I discovered that, I lost my faith in the Witnesses, in the Bible and I lost my belief in a god.
  
  A big help was reading the works of philosopher Ken Wilber and his writings about the spiral of consciousness. He pointed out that some people will become dissatisfied with their religion, but simply move on to another. There is really no change of world view - they simply move on to a different version of the same level of consciousness, the same world view.
  
  Others will have a much more profound experience. They will actually have a shift into an expanded worldview and will move higher up the spiral of consciousness.
  
  That's what has happened to many former JWs who post here. It's also why none of us ever go back. We've moved to a wider world view, we've climbed to a higher level of consciousness, and there is simply no way of going back. It's like thinking a mature adult can revert back to a child's world view.
  
  Can't happen.
  
  I made that move even though I would really like for there to be a nice, benevolent big daddy or mommy in the sky who would care for me and help me out. There is just simply absolutely NO evidence for that. If he or she does show up, they really have some explaining to do! And, I'd be fine with that.
  
  Those steps happened fairly quickly once I started examining the evidence.
  
  That's why the WTS is so afraid of members getting a REAL education. There is an old saying, "A thinking Jehovah's Witness is soon an ex-Jehovah's Witness."
  
  Yeah, the WTS is bleeding atheists!
  
  S4
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  32

  Is There Something Specific That U Regret Not Doing Because You Were A JW?

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  did you want to belong to a social club but couldn't because it was "worldly" and witnesses don't get involved with the world?.

  did you not go to college simply because witnesses say it's bad?.

  did you deprive your kids of things because you were a "good jw"?.

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  Seeker4

  In the latest AARP mag, there is an article on regrets, and in general, a lot of people list not getting an adequate education as their main regret in life.
  
  I would guess that this would be much more so among ex-JWs.
  
  I would say that it is my main regret.
  
  S4
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  23

  Why all the changes?????

  by seek2find in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  in my life time as a witness, there have been many changes and there are still more to come.

  like the "generation" change in the feb study edition of the wt.

  my question is this.

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  Seeker4

  This is the JW pattern for a long, long time.
  
  Some 40 years ago when I was a teenager, an older Pioneer told me that an old anointed brother had told him that you "should throw away all literature older than 10 years," as it will contain things the Witnesses no longer believe.
  
  The WTS claims that Jehovah accepted the Bible Students as his people in 1918 or so.
  
  Yet any JW today, who taught what was taught by this organization in 1918, would be disfellowshipped for apostasy today!! Go figure...
  
  S4
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  31

  Randy Watters, thank you!

  by onacruse in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this may seem like a shameless plug for www.freeminds.org.

  but it's not.. randy has been a source of significant information for me (and countless others) over the last decade(s), and very recently sent me (at his expense) some additional information about the wts.. now, one thing i must say is that randy and i do not share the same ideologies about religious perspectives.

  but, ya know what?

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  Seeker4

  Before I had the Internet at home, I was in the process of totally losing my faith in the WTS, and I would go to the library and type "Jehovah's Witnesses" in the search engine.
  
  That led me to Randy and Freeminds. His site, and DocBob's, were the key to my leaving. What a relief it was to know that I wasn't the only one who thought so much of the WTS's teachings and actions were ridiculous. They showed me that my doubts were not the result of my own pride and arrogance, like the WTS would have me believe, but the result of careful and objective THINKING.
  
  I also knew a lot of the people Randy wrote about at Bethel, and I knew his stories had the total ring of truth to them.
  
  Randy, you and I have taken different paths since leaving Watchtowerdom, but I have huge respect for you, and a deep appreciation for what you've done.
  
  Thank you, bro!
  
  S4
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  19

  Was the CA expense ever justified to the elders?

  by AK - Jeff in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  at every single circuit assembly i attended, there was always the inevitable 'accounts report'.

  it was pretty much always the same;.

  "our expenses for the operation of this fine spiritual meal is estimated to be $18,000.

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  Seeker4

  I was the Accounts Overseer for a circuit for many years.
  
  Back when we rented schools, we had X number of expenses, rent, food etc.
  
  Generally, as I remember it, it went like this:
  
  You figured your expenses and income on THAT assembly, and you read the report based on figures that only went through Sunday morning. You did not include money that you had in the circuit account, and of course you wouldn't have the figures on the amount collected after noon on Sunday.
  
  For example, say you had $5000 in the circuit bank account. Expenses for the assembly, which you would know very accurately early in the weekend, most likely, say they came to $3000. Contributions and other income from the assembly (at the time it would be for sale of food) say by Sunday morning, would come to $2000.
  
  When you gave the accounts report, it would only be FOR THAT ASSEMBLY - so any money on hand at the beginning of the assembly, the $5000 in the circuit account,
  would NOT be included in the report. So you'd say that expenses for THAT assembly were $3000, which would usually include a gift to the WTS, and as of noon, contributions were $2000, leaving a $1000 deficit FOR THAT Assembly.
  
  Now with the noon and after session contributions, say you got another $2000 - so in the end, the assembly actually ended up $1000 in the black, AND that money say would go into the circuit's account, which would now total $6000. BUT, at the next assembly, again the report would not include that $6000. The report would cover only the expenses and income of that particular assembly.
  
  When we moved into an assembly hall, there was a per-head charge per publisher in the circuit, and things were handled a little differently. I was the assembly overseer then and not in accounts, and I can't remember exactly how it was done, but I think the circuit still maintained it's own bank account.
  
  S4
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  72

  Minimus and me

  by seven006 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  he told me that the thread he started yesterday tell me what you think of certain posters had been locked because some people though the bantering between he and i was serious.

  im sorry but i laughed.

  a lot.

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  Seeker4

  Min, say it ain't so!!! How could I live if you were limited to only 25 posts a day?? I'd have to get a life....
  
  Hey, you rabble rousing again, bro?? You and Dave - I shoulda known....
  
  Malcontents and wiseasses - gotta love you guys! I do!
  
  S4
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  16

  Personal feelings from responses from former Congregations/Bethelites

  by What-A-Coincidence in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i spent 10 years in bethel.

  my only "friends" were bethelites and congregation members.

  i left bethel 2 years ago and underwent a thorough investigation of the 'truth' without the so called blinders.

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  Seeker4

  WAC,
  
  Good going. I had decades in with years as an elder, Pioneer, Circuit and district responsibilities up the wazoo. I'm very glad to have been out close to 10 years now.
  
  And like you, I've been using my skills to keep pecking away at the old monster - and boy, have we made some inroads over the last few years!
  
  S4
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  20

  Disfellowshipped without knowing

  by faundy in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  is this allowed?

  i am being ignored by my neighbours and have been gingerly waved to by an elder.

  now i haven't heard anything from anyone but is it possible to be disfellowshipped without my knowing?

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  Seeker4

  In general, Willyloman is right: You SHOULD have been notified and told you had 7 days to appeal, even if you didn't attend the judicial hearing. You should also have been invited to teh original judicial hearing also, of course.
  
  Those are the WTS rules. That having been said, they also can break those rules.
  
  Two years ago in late winter I was invited to a judicial committee hearing. I refused to attend. I sent a letter to all the elders stating that I had not claimed to be a JW for several years, and as such should be left alone, according the the WTS's written policy. I threatened to sue their asses if they didn't start following the WTS's own policy on the matter.
  
  I didn't hear a word. NOTHING. Then, six months or more later, I heard third hand that it was announced that I was no longer one of JWs. They'd DFed me without a word to me about it!!
  
  Local elders and the WTS can do whatever the hell they want in a lot of circumstances to make things easier for themselves, and that's what happened in my case. They DFed me without following any of their written policies. It can and does happen in some circumstances, and I'm fairly certain that in my case it happened at the direction of the WTS itself. Because of the threat of a lawsuit, the Society would have had to be involved. They would have been given copies of my letter to the elders.
  
  S4