I'm a non-jw in the US and was told that the meeting was for baptized and unbaptized "publishers." Doesn't that translate to those who go door to door?
NeverKnew
JoinedPosts by NeverKnew
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16
Annual Meeting open to anyone in Australia?
by RayPublisher ini just saw this quote on a forum for uber jwdubbs:.
"in australia branch territory everyone can come, public included, however not going publicly advising it, plus no tickets are going to be used".
i wonder if that's really the case?
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5
Believe Vs judgement
by Skbj ini was watching a youtube video of exjw in italy who explained what woke his mind up.
it's an old recording and this guy became an evangelist, however for those who don't speak italian i want to briefly explain what started the awakening process for him as i found it interesting.. this guy found an old lady in the ministry and started a bible study but she couldn't see the scriptures as the writing were too small and at the time there weren't wt publications in big characters so the brother went to the city centre to a place where they sold bibles and bought the one with the biggest characters.
the sales man said to him: i know you're a jw and i know you read the bible, and you don't only read the bible but you study the bible and not only you studying it but you go preach the bible to other people.
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NeverKnew
Hi, SKBJ,
I can't answer your first 5 bullets since I've never been a JW. Actually, sometimes when I read this forum it suggests that I wouldn't be able to answer even if I was a JW. *sigh*
To your 6th point, my personal answer is?.... Context! If you don't consider the audience, you'll be lost for sure. :)
I'm no expert, but here's what I keep in mind. Paul was a Jew but he was an apostle to the Gentiles - not the Jews. As we all know, recently converted Jews would have been entrenched in the practice known throughout the scriptures as "the Law." You know the old adage, "When in Rome, do as the Romans do?" Take a peek at 1 Cor. 9:19-22. :) Paul's goal was to win converts by relating using the customs and understanding of those he was around. In order to interpret the speaker's frame, you have to consider the speaker's apostleship as well as the audience (Jew to Jew?... Jew to Gentile?).
Just something to consider.
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Praying and Studying Scripture
by mrhhome ini ask this question as a non-jw christian who has jw in-laws.. the jw are convinced that all non-jw christians are under the influence of satan, because the jw are the only people following scripture.
of course as you dig into the scriptural basis for what they do, you realize that it is extremely weak.
in many cases, outright contrary to the intent of scripture.. this is where i struggle as a christian in dealing with jw.
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NeverKnew
Hi and welcome MrHHome!
As a Christian non-jw who has been with and around JWs for 2 years now I can tell you how it has worked with me. This is going to sound insulting to some, so let me reiterate... this is MY experience.
JW: 1 Cor. 7:39 says we (JWs) MUST only marry in the Lord.
Me: Hm... contextually, I'm thinking Paul was considering the three groups in existence at that time - Jews, Non-Jews, and a new group of a mix of the two that believed in Christ. I see nothing here about marrying only JWs. Let's read the chapter together...
(we read)
Me: Hm... looking at verse 25, it appears that Paul is acknowledging that this is his opinion...
JW: It doesn't matter, verse 39 is scriptural and all scriptures are inspired by God and useful...
Me: uh.. are you saying that verse 25 isn't scripture?
(this question is followed by a meltdown in the conversation)
MY experience (with about 7 different JWs) is that they have phenomenal comprehension skills when it comes to reading WT literature, however, know that they are not going to interpret scriptures in the way that we've always known and more often than not, they'll read them but the mental block is too strong. Many times I was dead sure they'd HAVE to acknowledge that what they were saying and what the Bible said were not the same only to look at them and realize a creepy "doe in the headlight with gentle smile" stare after the reading. As you begin to discuss the passage, you realize that they read but didn't contextually consider the verses.
Just this past weekend, I had a woman emphatically state that ALL of the 144,000 were JWs. I responded, "Hm... I REALLY could have sworn the 144,000 were Jewish males who were virgins. I then turned to Rev 7 & 14 (to check myself with her looking on) and read the passages with the two ladies... the response? A short silence followed by, "Nope... see... what you don't realize is that some of the 144,000 are married."
Reading Revelation 19:1 resulted in two different responses (two different JWs)
REJOICING IN HEAVEN (caption preceeding verse in ESV)
"After this I heard what seemed to be the loud voice of a great multitude in heaven, crying out,..."
For us non-jws, "okay... great crowd in heaven cried out... got it."
JW Response #1: "That verse says he heard 'what seemed' to be a loud voice of a great multitude in heaven! That doesn't mean it was in heaven! Furthermore, it is dishonest of the ESV to put that caption on there when that's NOT what the Biiiible says! (they drag out the "I" in Bible when they are making the point that only THEY are following the Bible)
JW Response #2 who is sitting with another woman: "See, what you gotta understand is that there are lots of angels in heaven and THAT'S the crowd this verse is talking about but THAT'S not the crowd we're going to be in. ...unless you're thinking you're going to be an angel or something! (said with a sarcastic chuckle) See you're confused... you're so confused."
Be ready to practice a LOT of patience.
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NEW BIBLE
by The Searcher inthe following is part of an email from a retired district overseer in the states.
(source private).
"the new bible will be released at the agm and i understand only two versions will be printed from now on.
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65
Gay MS??
by andysmiles inabout me, i am being raised in a jw family.
all of my family expect for one aunt, who had left but not disfellowedshiped thankly, are in jw.
my father is an elder and so is my grandfather.
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NeverKnew
My thought?
Welcome and hugs to you! :)
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Given your perspective, would you rank AA as a cult after reading this?
by NeverKnew ina very dear friend's husband is going to aa and has been successfully clean for a year now.
he has attributed his success to aa.
we are all very excited about his sobriety.
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NeverKnew
For those who did not go to the site, I'd love for you to do so. I hadn't thought of the implications of showing a JW the page. I have and I think it may have had an impact. Didn't have a long conversation, but I'm hearing feedback!
The link is http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-cult_q0.html
The author gives his opinion on how he believes AA scores on several cult classifications. These include the following....
- 1. The Guru is always right.
- 3. No Exit.
- 5. Cult-speak.
- 6. Group-think, Suppression of Dissent, and Enforced Conformity in Thinking
- 9. Denigration of competing sects, cults, religions...
- 10. Personal attacks on critics.
- 11. Insistence that the group is THE ONLY WAY.
- 12. The group and its members are special.
- 13. Induction of guilt, and the use of guilt to manipulate group members.
- 17. Instant Community.
- 27. You Can't Tell The Truth.
- 28. Cloning — You become a clone of the group leader or other elder group members.
- 29. You must change your beliefs to conform to the group's beliefs.
- 31. Dishonesty, Deceit, Denial, Falsification, and Rewriting History.
- 32. Different Levels of Truth.
- 33. Newcomers can't think right.
- 38. An Impossible Superhuman Model of Perfection.
- 49. The guru or the group demands ultra-loyalty and total commitment.
- 50. Demands for Total Faith and Total Trust
- 51. Members Get No Respect. They Get Abused.
- 53. Hierarchical, Authoritarian Power Structure, and Social Castes
- 55. Belief equals truth
- 63. Separatism
- 67. Don't Trust Your Own Mind.
- 69. The group takes over the individual's decision-making process.
- 72. Progressive Indoctrination and Progressive Commitments
- 75. New Identity — Redefinition of Self — Revision of Personal History
- 77. True Believers
- 78. Scapegoating and Excommunication
- 84. You can't make it without the group.
- 85. Enemy-making and Devaluing the Outsider
- 86. The group wants to own you.
- 89. Demands For Compliance With The Group
- 90. Newcomers Need Fixing.
- 99. Total immersion and total isolation.
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Given your perspective, would you rank AA as a cult after reading this?
by NeverKnew ina very dear friend's husband is going to aa and has been successfully clean for a year now.
he has attributed his success to aa.
we are all very excited about his sobriety.
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NeverKnew
A very dear friend's husband is going to AA and has been successfully clean for a year now. He has attributed his success to AA. We are all very excited about his sobriety. Recently, she has found herself alone on many a night that were formerly considered "date nights." There's some work that I'm doing that involves AA. Wondering if pushing to un-involve them would be detrimental to some's sobriety. My stomach turned when I came across a site which gave 100 cult indicators and the ranking of AA to the indicator. http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-cult_q0.html I'm hoping a few of you will copy and paste the link. I seem to have lost the icon to make my url clickable. YIKES, I have NO formatting options!
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New
by rod.henderson inhi,.
completely brand new to this site and to witnesses.
a friend introduced me to the jw and i'm just learning all i can..
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NeverKnew
Rod,
I too am a non-jw. My interest piqued out of a love for a very dear friend. I attended a Catholic high school and college. I understand your doctrinal background. Like you, I see the value in a non-denominational perception of faith. I also am fascinated by other's beliefs. I believe most other non-jws respect and allow for variant perceptions of faith.
You and I probably share an aversion to slamming other faiths. Many of my friends are uncomfortable with my "concerns" for we all believe in the inappropriateness of challenging other's religion. But this is not religion as we know it.
Form your own opinion. Just know that I hurt for everyone this denomination touches.
And welcome!
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New Arrangement: All Can Listen In to Bethel Annual Meeting
by Red Piller ina letter read at our meeting.. .
our congregation is assigned a location (a nearby congregation) to listen (video, also?
) to the annual meeting.
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NeverKnew
Will the governing body lovingly make provisions for non-jws to attend? I'll go!
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How Many JWs Are Confident They Are Worthy?
by Ding inwhich jws do you think actually feel confident that they would survive armageddon if it came tomorrow?
gb members?
bethelites?
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NeverKnew
This very subject really caught me off guard the other night.
My friend just asked me if I believed I was assured of my salvation. I responded, "of course!"
His response, "Well then you don't need me... or any church... or ANYBODY THEN! Why do you even bother going to church?" He demanded to know. I told him that he was right. I loved him, but that I would not be looking to him for salvation.
I've read that in JW theology, there's no salvation guarantee but to hear the notion fall from the lips of a person you care about is hard. He's working himself silly to gain approval. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it appears that this notion is a key motivator to this acceptance of slavery.