Posts by NeverKnew

8

The Last NWT in America

by NeverKnew in

jw
friends

so, my non jw cousins have been telling me about a couple of jws that have been "coming over a lot and talking about their religion" (it's hilarious that my cousins don't see these sessions as "bible studies").

it seems that i've been hearing about these ladies for at least a year but i doubt that my cigarette smoking, pants wearing, no-dress owning, flip-flop wearing, verbal swearing cousin they come to meet with isn't always available.

i was told that the last time they were there, they asked my cousin to get her bible.

NeverKnew

I think that plan got hi-jacked when I came on the scene.

It had to have been the world's WORST Bible study. It could have been a hilarious youtube video. At one point, the woman who appeared to be the point person was just sitting staring straight ahead looking like, "this can't be happening." There were five people... 3 non-jws and 2 jws. Because I've now talked to my cousins about JW beliefs they had known nothing about, they have become insanely curious so they were trying to make heads AND tails of the answers. OH, and NONE of us are shy.

The point person JW kept holding up her literature saying, "we're NOT going in ORDER folks!" and her counterpart would then say, "See, that's why she's confused" and point at me. At one point she said to me, "That's why you can't understand, see you keep jumping around. These books are ORGANIZED." I told her that it appeared that the scriptural references were kinda all over the place but she insisted that I had to read it EXACTLY as it was written to understand. "But it looks like there's a reference to our last topic you said was off-topic - 1914 in that next paragraph over there on the next page? I'm not allowed to talk about my question before that paragraph?" "NO," she replied in frustration, "Do you know what order means?"

My cousins would be talking about points THEY had just made, and the point person wasn't being heard at all. Now in retrospect, it was hilarious! EVERYone was talking at the same time.

At one point, the pointperson regained control of the crowd. Flustered from the previous topic, she mistakenly declared within three sentences that the Jews had killed Jesus. You would have thought that my non-church going cousin was a competitor on Jeopardy! "OH NO.... UH-UHHHHH!!!! THAT was the ROMANS who killed Jesus! Even I know that." Simultaneously, cousin number 2 says, "The story about the Romans is in this Bible here somewhere and it's the same on TV!" I was feeling kinda sorry for the pointperson so I kept my mouth shut for this one.

The other JW woman? She was trying my Christian patience.... LOL

8

The Last NWT in America

by NeverKnew in

jw
friends

so, my non jw cousins have been telling me about a couple of jws that have been "coming over a lot and talking about their religion" (it's hilarious that my cousins don't see these sessions as "bible studies").

it seems that i've been hearing about these ladies for at least a year but i doubt that my cigarette smoking, pants wearing, no-dress owning, flip-flop wearing, verbal swearing cousin they come to meet with isn't always available.

i was told that the last time they were there, they asked my cousin to get her bible.

NeverKnew

So, my non JW cousins have been telling me about a couple of JWs that have been "coming over a lot and talking about their religion" (it's hilarious that my cousins don't see these sessions as "Bible studies"). It seems that I've been hearing about these ladies for at least a year but I doubt that my cigarette smoking, pants wearing, no-dress owning, flip-flop wearing, verbal swearing cousin they come to meet with isn't always available. *ahem*

I was told that the last time they were there, they asked my cousin to get her Bible. My cousin, who hasn't been to church in YEARS, obediently went to a bookshelf... and pulled a Judaic Old Testament from the shelf. *snicker* (Isn't it amazing they've gone a year and not needed a Bible?)

They then instructed her to turn to Revalation. "Where is it? I can't find it...." She said they were totally befuddled by her "version".

Today, they dropped off a brand new NWT!

And yes, I happened to be visiting my cousins one Saturday when the pair came by. My cousins were stifling laughter as I was repeatedly told I was confused on many subjects. Hitting the topic of the 144K, I was told that ALL of them were JWs! Brow furrowed, I told them that I believed the Bible said it was "a bunch of Jewish guys who were virgins." and I scan-read Rev 7 and 14 aloud for them to hear.

They both stared off the deck and into the sky. After a moment of silence, one woman responded, "See, that's your problem, you're confused. Some of them are married."

So, now, I see my cousins trying not to burst into laughter over the repeated declaration of my being confused. I reply in jest, "I don't think I'm confused about that passage. You're not going to believe this, but my IQ might be slightly higher than normal."

Same woman unabashedly snapped, "Well then THAT must be your problem!"

I gotta work on my delivery. Apparently, I sound confused. *sigh*

40

I'm Perfect, You're Doomed - a review

by Farkel in

"i'm perfect, you're doomed" by kyria abrahams, 2009, touchstone.. if you want a way to get people out of that horrible cult, easily, quickly and expeditiously, then here is how to do that.. i can say with a vote of confidence that anyone who reads this book will never and i mean never become a dub.

dubs who read it (assuming they have at least one or two brain cells left) will run from their religion like flies on shit when you pour bleach on it and blow it up with dynamite.. toss away crisis of conscience, apocalypse delayed, 30 years a watchtower slave and all those other very nice books and read this one.

i read those and all the other ones.

NeverKnew

I'm a non-jw who read the book a couple of years ago, Farkel. It was hilarious! The most memorable part was when she referred to non-jws as birdfood. Now THAT was hilarious!

My ONLY concern is that a non-jw may miss the point. Some would read that book and think she was just around zany characters. They may not realize that the notions held by her characters are real.

I may grab it from the library again and let you know. I really got a good laugh from that book!

16

Annual Meeting open to anyone in Australia?

by RayPublisher in

i just saw this quote on a forum for uber jwdubbs:.

"in australia branch territory everyone can come, public included, however not going publicly advising it, plus no tickets are going to be used".

i wonder if that's really the case?

NeverKnew

I'm a non-jw in the US and was told that the meeting was for baptized and unbaptized "publishers." Doesn't that translate to those who go door to door?

5

Believe Vs judgement

by Skbj in

jw
friends

i was watching a youtube video of exjw in italy who explained what woke his mind up.

it's an old recording and this guy became an evangelist, however for those who don't speak italian i want to briefly explain what started the awakening process for him as i found it interesting.. this guy found an old lady in the ministry and started a bible study but she couldn't see the scriptures as the writing were too small and at the time there weren't wt publications in big characters so the brother went to the city centre to a place where they sold bibles and bought the one with the biggest characters.

the sales man said to him: i know you're a jw and i know you read the bible, and you don't only read the bible but you study the bible and not only you studying it but you go preach the bible to other people.

NeverKnew

Hi, SKBJ,

I can't answer your first 5 bullets since I've never been a JW. Actually, sometimes when I read this forum it suggests that I wouldn't be able to answer even if I was a JW. *sigh*

To your 6th point, my personal answer is?.... Context! If you don't consider the audience, you'll be lost for sure. :)

I'm no expert, but here's what I keep in mind. Paul was a Jew but he was an apostle to the Gentiles - not the Jews. As we all know, recently converted Jews would have been entrenched in the practice known throughout the scriptures as "the Law." You know the old adage, "When in Rome, do as the Romans do?" Take a peek at 1 Cor. 9:19-22. :) Paul's goal was to win converts by relating using the customs and understanding of those he was around. In order to interpret the speaker's frame, you have to consider the speaker's apostleship as well as the audience (Jew to Jew?... Jew to Gentile?).

Just something to consider.

8

Praying and Studying Scripture

by mrhhome in

jw
friends

i ask this question as a non-jw christian who has jw in-laws.. the jw are convinced that all non-jw christians are under the influence of satan, because the jw are the only people following scripture.

of course as you dig into the scriptural basis for what they do, you realize that it is extremely weak.

in many cases, outright contrary to the intent of scripture.. this is where i struggle as a christian in dealing with jw.

NeverKnew

Hi and welcome MrHHome!

As a Christian non-jw who has been with and around JWs for 2 years now I can tell you how it has worked with me. This is going to sound insulting to some, so let me reiterate... this is MY experience.

JW: 1 Cor. 7:39 says we (JWs) MUST only marry in the Lord.

Me: Hm... contextually, I'm thinking Paul was considering the three groups in existence at that time - Jews, Non-Jews, and a new group of a mix of the two that believed in Christ. I see nothing here about marrying only JWs. Let's read the chapter together...

(we read)

Me: Hm... looking at verse 25, it appears that Paul is acknowledging that this is his opinion...

JW: It doesn't matter, verse 39 is scriptural and all scriptures are inspired by God and useful...

Me: uh.. are you saying that verse 25 isn't scripture?

(this question is followed by a meltdown in the conversation)

MY experience (with about 7 different JWs) is that they have phenomenal comprehension skills when it comes to reading WT literature, however, know that they are not going to interpret scriptures in the way that we've always known and more often than not, they'll read them but the mental block is too strong. Many times I was dead sure they'd HAVE to acknowledge that what they were saying and what the Bible said were not the same only to look at them and realize a creepy "doe in the headlight with gentle smile" stare after the reading. As you begin to discuss the passage, you realize that they read but didn't contextually consider the verses.

Just this past weekend, I had a woman emphatically state that ALL of the 144,000 were JWs. I responded, "Hm... I REALLY could have sworn the 144,000 were Jewish males who were virgins. I then turned to Rev 7 & 14 (to check myself with her looking on) and read the passages with the two ladies... the response? A short silence followed by, "Nope... see... what you don't realize is that some of the 144,000 are married."

Reading Revelation 19:1 resulted in two different responses (two different JWs)

REJOICING IN HEAVEN (caption preceeding verse in ESV)

"After this I heard what seemed to be the loud voice of a great multitude in heaven, crying out,..."

For us non-jws, "okay... great crowd in heaven cried out... got it."

JW Response #1: "That verse says he heard 'what seemed' to be a loud voice of a great multitude in heaven! That doesn't mean it was in heaven! Furthermore, it is dishonest of the ESV to put that caption on there when that's NOT what the Biiiible says! (they drag out the "I" in Bible when they are making the point that only THEY are following the Bible)

JW Response #2 who is sitting with another woman: "See, what you gotta understand is that there are lots of angels in heaven and THAT'S the crowd this verse is talking about but THAT'S not the crowd we're going to be in. ...unless you're thinking you're going to be an angel or something! (said with a sarcastic chuckle) See you're confused... you're so confused."

Be ready to practice a LOT of patience.

106

NEW BIBLE

by The Searcher in

the following is part of an email from a retired district overseer in the states.

(source private).

"the new bible will be released at the agm and i understand only two versions will be printed from now on.

NeverKnew

So, if the new edition is available on jw.org and I use an Ipad, and my cell phone carrier allows for a hotspot, why would I need a physical Bible?

Does carrying a physical Bible create an appearance of being pious?....

....Seems like you'd just appear encumbered.

65

Gay MS??

by andysmiles in

about me, i am being raised in a jw family.

all of my family expect for one aunt, who had left but not disfellowedshiped thankly, are in jw.

my father is an elder and so is my grandfather.

NeverKnew

My thought?

Welcome and hugs to you! :)

23

Given your perspective, would you rank AA as a cult after reading this?

by NeverKnew in

jw
friends

a very dear friend's husband is going to aa and has been successfully clean for a year now.

he has attributed his success to aa.

we are all very excited about his sobriety.

NeverKnew

For those who did not go to the site, I'd love for you to do so. I hadn't thought of the implications of showing a JW the page. I have and I think it may have had an impact. Didn't have a long conversation, but I'm hearing feedback!

The link is http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-cult_q0.html

The author gives his opinion on how he believes AA scores on several cult classifications. These include the following....

23

Given your perspective, would you rank AA as a cult after reading this?

by NeverKnew in

jw
friends

a very dear friend's husband is going to aa and has been successfully clean for a year now.

he has attributed his success to aa.

we are all very excited about his sobriety.

NeverKnew

A very dear friend's husband is going to AA and has been successfully clean for a year now. He has attributed his success to AA. We are all very excited about his sobriety. Recently, she has found herself alone on many a night that were formerly considered "date nights." There's some work that I'm doing that involves AA. Wondering if pushing to un-involve them would be detrimental to some's sobriety. My stomach turned when I came across a site which gave 100 cult indicators and the ranking of AA to the indicator. http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-cult_q0.html I'm hoping a few of you will copy and paste the link. I seem to have lost the icon to make my url clickable. YIKES, I have NO formatting options!