Spiral

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Posts by Spiral

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  41

  147th Gilead prt. 3 - this could stumble people

  by neat blue dog in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  during gerrit loesch's talk just released, he goes on a long list of the false end times predictions throughout the millennia.

  i didn't expect it, but then he goes into the precursors to the bible students who, when their dates failed, changed christ's presence to have happened 'invisibly'.

  then it goes right into the jws, and he reads the quote from millions now living will never die about how we can 'confidently expect' the resurrection in 1925, and then the life everlasting book that predicted 1975. of course, he doesn't say how it's still going on, namely with the overlapping generation and its' accompanying convoluted chart, but still, this is more than they've ever said on the subject, especially recently.. it almost sounds like a forced statement, to address any backlash from people reading 'apostate lies' online, because he also says how the gb 'humbly' admitted mistakes, referencing the non-apology after 1975 that disturbed raymond franz.

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  Spiral

  Haven't watched the video, but I'm guessing it is a weird attempt at damage control. Even my PIMI friends (what I have left, can count on one hand) get really uncomfortable when you talk about failed prophecy. It's painful for them to think about, but enough time has gone past that those of us who were born in (or almost) can see that all that stuff we studied and believed is nonsense.

  This is when the bOrg will have to start converting into some sort of megachurch, versus being an "on the edge" group who has greater insight into upcoming events. (Which is what they thought they were, LAST century.)

  It being so obvious that they have no greater insights at all, about anything.
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  10

  Question: When did the JWs start having judicial committees?

  by Spiral in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i've been reading the book recommended by zing "soul snatchers, the mechanics of cults" (bought a used copy online) and one of the things mentioned was how cults police all aspects of their members' lives.

  so it got me to wondering, when did the practice of three men (elders) having a hearing (or should we say trial) and passing judgment on a member start?

  did the early bible students do this?

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  Spiral

  I've been reading the book recommended by Zing "Soul Snatchers, the Mechanics of Cults" (bought a used copy online) and one of the things mentioned was how cults police all aspects of their members' lives. So it got me to wondering, when did the practice of three men (elders) having a hearing (or should we say trial) and passing judgment on a member start? Did the early Bible Students do this? This aspect of being a JW has always given me the creeps.
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  24

  Latest Circuit Assembly Money Assault!

  by eyeuse2badub in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  probably not new to many of you but i'm gonna post it anyway!.

  i went to a circuit assembly last week at the fremont, ca assembly hall in fremont, ca to be with my wife so she could be there to 'witness' the baptism of a person she "studied" with about 2 decades ago!.

  at the main entry to the assembly hall there are 3 or 4 large double door entrances.

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  Spiral

  @Tameria and Joe, those ideas make sense. A "fee" or "membership" (just like online newspapers, etc.) would be far more palatable to the average JW than saying "tithing" or "required" donation, etc. Whatever it takes to bring the money in.
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  24

  Latest Circuit Assembly Money Assault!

  by eyeuse2badub in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  probably not new to many of you but i'm gonna post it anyway!.

  i went to a circuit assembly last week at the fremont, ca assembly hall in fremont, ca to be with my wife so she could be there to 'witness' the baptism of a person she "studied" with about 2 decades ago!.

  at the main entry to the assembly hall there are 3 or 4 large double door entrances.

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  Spiral

  Thing is, those of us that grew up in the 60s - 80s (and before) remember how "the Society" would always say tht they wouldn't ever tithe or openly beg for money (including passing the plate on Sunday). So seeing this blatant focus on contributions seems shameful to a lot of us.

  But the younger generations and the truly brainwashed don't remember or choose to remember those statements about asking for money (and not being like "Babylon the Great") so they wouldn't find any of this strange.

  I do think tithing is coming, in some fashion.
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  40

  Has Anything Really Changed For JWs In The Last 10 Years?

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  2020 is days away.

  has anything really changed for the witnesses or the religion?

  ?.

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  Spiral

  I do think it's turning into a culty mega-church. The tone is somewhat different, and more culty, than what I remember from before.
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  16

  "Do You think that 8 million are being deceived?" Ways to answer this?

  by BottleGate_ in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  mine is : jws preach that the entire population of the earth has been deceived ..

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  Spiral

  goingthruthemotions3 hours ago

  i don't believe that everyone that attends is fully in. alot of PIMO's. Secondly they say they have 8.5 million members, i think this is exagerated.

  But there are ones like my wife who are fully brainwashed, and these are the dangerous ones. When my wifes comes from every meeting...she is a different person. it's kinda disturbing.

  I think you're right. A lot of people who attend aren't really true believers, they are just there because of family. BUT - some are totally brainwashed, and it is disturbing.

  I don't believe any of their figures. There's no way to prove it, one way or another.

  But the deception is real. Many people just don't want to really think about what's going on in the world, so it's easy to just park your brain and follow along with a group's thinking.

  That's why I've always thought it was so strange that, of all things, "Judge" Rutherford actually publicized the idea of "Religion is a Snare and a Racket". So true, and yet he was one of the worst.
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  14

  meeting attendance

  by asp59 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  how much has meeting attendance gone down say the last 10-15 years at khs do you think?

  in percentage.

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  Spiral

  What I see here where I am, the local congregations (two congos, different languages) have been shrinking, so an attendance of 60 at the meeting would be 100% if that's all the publishers you have. (Do they still calculate it that way?)

  After combining congregations the attendance is still only at 80-85, so I'm thinking a few people took the opportunity to fade. (Smart!) Several just call in, and their numbers are included in those figures.

  Fifteen years ago, meeting attendance here would almost always be over 100% - say 120 plus people at the Sunday meeting, and that's just for the English speaking congregation, which had around 95 publishers.
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  5

  Jdumbs Self Preservation tactics

  by ZindagiNaMilegiDobaara in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  currently reading "cults,faith-healing and coercion".

  very informative info on many cults, sects and behaviors.

  reading different books on cults i personally gives me the knowledge to better understand the behavior and thoughts inside ones who are in a cult;which gives me a better handle on how to help wake them up without them going into denial.

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  Spiral

  More good info Zing, thank you.

  The more I read about cult psychology and then look at my JW relatives and friends, the more I see it's true.

  That's why we usually can't reason with them and "get them out", the social structure is just too compelling.

  Sad.
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  10

  Excerpt from an interesting book ? ?

  by ZindagiNaMilegiDobaara in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  a deeply interesting read.. i have been reading: 'soul snatchers,the mechanics of cults' and i am finding it so precise in explaining /analysing cults.

  here is a few lines:.

  drug addiction and cult-membership have striking similarities.

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  Spiral

  AND the part about a substitute family where complicity takes over.

  Could this be the mental mechanism that enables members to look the other way when children are being abused, because the abuser has status in this "family"?
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  10

  Excerpt from an interesting book ? ?

  by ZindagiNaMilegiDobaara in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  a deeply interesting read.. i have been reading: 'soul snatchers,the mechanics of cults' and i am finding it so precise in explaining /analysing cults.

  here is a few lines:.

  drug addiction and cult-membership have striking similarities.

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  Spiral

  Thanks for posting this Zing. I was unaware of the similarities between cults and drug culture.

  I've just ordered a used copy, looking forward the reading the entire book.

  The following quote really caught my eye:

  a substitute family where complicity takes over, unifying
  the disciples while cutting them off from society even more. Here you
  can see a very real similarity to groups of drug-users.
  The third phase is the progressive increase in the constraints applied
  and the submission that results, with no chance of exit. At this stage the
  initiate is dependent on the cult, cut off from society at large, and psychologically and physically bound by obligations that deprive him of his freewill and of all social and economic freedom.

  "progressive increase in constraints" explains a lot!