Joseph, thank you for a clear statement of a scriptural connection to the fact that all things operate together for the sake of the Son and His kingdom. The concepts, generated by Col 1:14-17, are impossible to understand from a normal human stand point. Do you agree? What I'm asking is how does one relate to a being like this without being Him in a very real but unusual way? Much of the language relating to "Oneness", being "In Christ", "Christ in you" , leaving "Self " behind , etc. ( and you know the list is long) indicates an unusual condition of mind. Is this the transformation that occurs when the ego personality dissolves and a man's true nature is revealed. That nature being only ONE ?
Siddhashunyata
JoinedPosts by Siddhashunyata
-
12
"Two Witnesses" doctrine and child ab...
by stevieb1 inlike many others, i too am outraged by the watchtower's legalistic doctrine over the reporting of child abuse to the authorities, but for those lead by the bible we do have a dilemma because it would seem that the society are correct in their interpretation of deuteronomy 19:15 and matthew 18:16 and naturally they want to apply these verses to how they handle allegations of child abuse in judicial cases.. .
but with that being said, does the watchtower mis-apply these verses in any way?
if it can be shown that they do the case against them will be much stronger!.
-
-
-
12
"Two Witnesses" doctrine and child ab...
by stevieb1 inlike many others, i too am outraged by the watchtower's legalistic doctrine over the reporting of child abuse to the authorities, but for those lead by the bible we do have a dilemma because it would seem that the society are correct in their interpretation of deuteronomy 19:15 and matthew 18:16 and naturally they want to apply these verses to how they handle allegations of child abuse in judicial cases.. .
but with that being said, does the watchtower mis-apply these verses in any way?
if it can be shown that they do the case against them will be much stronger!.
-
-
Siddhashunyata
The issue of child abuse is obscured by imposing the Bible's authority on the matter. Obviously the Hebrew and early Christian cultures did not address the matter or, at the very least, it is not clearly addressed in the approved Bible canon. Stretching and digging through the Bible to find scriptural justification for either position shows the inadequacy of the Book itself and the folly of trying to "squeeze" out an answer to every question . Bible "Believers" have an agenda that begins with establishing the Bible as the final authority in all matters and this agenda is unacceptable to Caesar. It should be clear , even to "Bible Believers" , that crimes that require some kind of physical retribution are within the jurisdiction of Caesar otherwise the congregations would bear physical swords.Encouraging an investigation by Caesar is the same as using a resource . Discouraging the use of this resource endangers the congregations and the community at large. Thankfuly , Caesar is not bound by partisan views of the Bible and soon this will beome clear to the WTBTS . If the issue is whether to believe a child"s testimony over that of an adult then let the child have preference. They are more likely to be telling the truth. The Bible recommends that adults should become like children , naturally guileless. Let that be the "Bible" principle that takes pecedence over the "Two Witness " doctrine.
-
68
The Inherent Goodness Fallacy
by comforter inmost or all people are good.
actually, humans are basically evil.
the bible says that man be inclined toward what is bad from his youth up.
-
-
Siddhashunyata
It does not require a judgement of good or bad for one action to produce another. You hurt a child , you get hurt. Trying to stop a natural action is to work against nature and that too has its own effects thats why the WTBTS is experiencing the inevitible outcome of its actions . You sow you reap. There is no inconsistency in delighting in an outcome, as there is no inconsistency in delighting in a sunrise. This business of conceptualizing and passing judgements is not the same as observing "what is". Because the mind is not free of conditioning it cannot perceive "what is". Following a recipe of learned morality leads to judgements of good and evil and generates actions that also have inevitible outcomes, sometimes harmful. Two minds free of conditioning cannot work harm to one another. Watch the action of your own mind. The process is the same for all mankind. Note how many judgements of "good and bad" you are making. Ask yourself , what would the wolrd look like if I stopped deciding what is good or bad. See for yourself.
-
68
The Inherent Goodness Fallacy
by comforter inmost or all people are good.
actually, humans are basically evil.
the bible says that man be inclined toward what is bad from his youth up.
-
-
Siddhashunyata
Is it coincidental that the tree that caused sin to manifest is called "the knowledge of Good and Evil" ? This business of judging " good and evil" seems to be the root of a sinfull mind does it not?
-
11
"Conscience" - who makes the rules?
by eyeslice inas witnesses, we were frequently counselled to either do or not do things on the basis of not injuring the consciences of others.
to give an example, i used to always grow a beard whilst i was on vacation.
note, i am not particularly hung up on the right to wear a beard, i do not wear one now and i was never too bothered about shaving it off when i returned from vacation.. however, one year i didnt shave the vacation growth off immediately.
-
-
Siddhashunyata
Ditto on the beard issue. Also had a visit from the elders about my son's bumper sticker "Skate Boarding Is Not a Crime". Seems it was stumbling someone (anonymous). My reply was that the stumbled person should stop by and we will take it off "together". No takers.
-
17
The elder at my door today........omg
by LyinEyes inok, bear with me, i am a little shook up.
most everyone knows we just left town one day to work, and never went back to the kingdom hall.
that was over a year ago.
-
-
Siddhashunyata
Marilyn, your right. Thank you for your kindness.
-
17
The elder at my door today........omg
by LyinEyes inok, bear with me, i am a little shook up.
most everyone knows we just left town one day to work, and never went back to the kingdom hall.
that was over a year ago.
-
-
Siddhashunyata
Marilyn, Your feeling of powerlessness needs to be looked at very carefully. Firstly, it means that you fear that you will not be able to choose and that you will be swept away by convincing arguments and emotional feelings. Please try to understand that ideas and the process of forming ideas is where our weakness lies. If you were able to step outside this process then you would not be vulnerable and you would retain your power. If you could recognize the "hold" that ideas have on the elder that visited you then, you would see that his emotions are a result of these ideas. If you allow these ideas to become part of your mind and you do not recognize that they are merely ideas then you will be like him. Therefore practice making the distinction between ideas and actual perception. What I mean is that you should be concerned with the life that is around you and let that teach you through direct perception. Ideas confuse and limit our understanding. Just look! Sounds easy but you will find that it is very difficult. Very few choose to stop "ideation" and, for them direct perception remains a mystery or of no value at all.
-
7
Reading Someones Thoughts
by OUTLAW inthis forum is a very cool means of communication.we don`t talk,we think of what we want to communicate and transfer it onto the screen in front of us.then we send it around the world to other living beings to let them see what we are thinking,they in turn do the samethink of it,we are communicating around the world on the internet with just our thoughts.it`s not just communication of thoughts,it go`s one step beyond.it`s conversation with another person,with just our thoughtsthis is a tool like no other i have encountered.i have not been on the internet that long and i am still amazed...outlaw
-
-
Siddhashunyata
Yes, there is definitly a sensation of mind comunicating with mind here. Teilhard de Chardin spoke of the "noosphere" being the one mind of the planet, now forming. Could this be where the technology is going?
-
23
Is Jehovah Irresponsible?
by Amazing inif i as a parent were to keep a pit bull or poisonous snake in my house, and it killed one of my children, what would the civil authorities do?
what would the media pundits and experts say about my parenting skills?
how would child services act had they known about the situation in advance?
-
-
Siddhashunyata
Amazing, there is no doubt that the WTBTS seeks to glorify itself. At best, it denys (psychologically speaking ) the inconsistencies ( like the examples you give) and perpetrates the "fantasy" in order to retain power over its membership. The whips are fear and guilt. However, it is a a fearful thing for people to accept the reality of nature without a "fantasy"and so, there is a need out there and the WT and other groups are filling that need. When I was very young I naively thought everyone was asking the Big Questions but as I grew older I realized that very few were sincere and fewer still were serious about the answers. It has been a harrowing experience. Yes, the problem is with WT theology, and with their fantasy image of God and with their selfish need to glorify themselves. Your questions are provocative and those who respect you (and there are many, including myself) are going to come face to face with a personal religious crisis if they contemplate the meaning of their honest answers. This can be a good thing but frought with feelings of despair. A good thing because at last we are facing the nature of existential experience and approaching the thing with one eye on how a "belief system" can compound ignorance and finally paralyze and blind us from realizing our true nature. I won't go on here because much of what I have to say has been said in other posts. However I will ask this question : What is there that is beyond "Belief"?
-
28
Witnesses Not Budging on 1914
by stevieb1 injust attended the sunday of the zealous kingdom proclaimers district convention in manchester, england and during the final talk we had an update on the world situation as it relates to jehovah's witnesses.
the speaker was peter ellis, a member of the london bethel branch committee.. he stated that many had been waiting for armageddon for some years and some have become disappointed that it hasn't yet arrived, and that newer jw's did not seem to have the same degree of faith as some of the old-timers in the faith, hence this was of serious concern.
then he said something along the lines of 1914 being set in stone and that the organization was not going to get any new light on this key doctrine, hence we can be sure that armageddon is very near.. interesting don't you think?
-
-
Siddhashunyata
The problem that the WTBTS is dealing with is that they have at least two different audiances and they have to appease both. One audience is the "stuck" oldtimers and the other audience is the "newbies" who are being prepared for the shift into "mainstream" religion. This problem was succesfully navigated by the Seventh Day Adventists by simply saying " the End can happen any time now But lets make this world as good as it can be until It happens". The "Old Guard " died off and the Church began to build hospitals and schools etc. Look for it to happen. The Seventh Day Adventists still teach that the End is "imminent" just as they did over 100 years ago its just not emphasized. This is a transition period for the WTBTS. The SHOUT of the "End" will become a whisper. I guess that's how the world ends .."with a whisper" and "not with a bang".( I couldn't resist that.)