Posts by siegswife

163

Moral absolutes

by Aztec in

i keep saying i am going to start a thread on this topic so here goes.... what, if anything, is always morally wrong?

murder, rape, incest?

how much do you think your belief, or lack thereof, in a higher power influences your opinion?.

siegswife

drwn,

If a rapist was forced to violate some woman or face the mass execution of 1000 innocent children, would that excuse his actions?

What would prevent the "rapist" from telling the woman about his dilemna during the assault? If the woman has morals, she would probably become a willing participant in the act in order to save the 1000 innocent children.

Another take on this is that the man and the women are both victims of rape perpetrated by those who would kill the 1000 innocent children. Isn't the man being forced to have unwanted sex as well?

Again, this scenario speaks to morals or lack thereof of those behind the heinous acts, not the victims.

163

Moral absolutes

by Aztec in

i keep saying i am going to start a thread on this topic so here goes.... what, if anything, is always morally wrong?

murder, rape, incest?

how much do you think your belief, or lack thereof, in a higher power influences your opinion?.

siegswife

Reborn,

These sick predators love an audience. They beat the boy into a bloody pulp but leave him alive.. and the girl.. well the girl does not share the same fortunate fate. They strip her of her clothes, beat her, and force themselves upon her, ravaging her again and again. As the parents protest they make it painstakingly clear that if they continue to protest they will be killed. The children will die. The entire family will die. The parents sit in submission while this horrifying act is committed, and sure enough, as all sexual predators are, when they finish, they do leave, but not after beating everyone bloody again. Yet, all are still alive...

My take on this is that the parents' inaction doesn't ivolve their morality. Their innaction makes them neither immoral or amoral. The immoral actions are those of the two drunks who put all of those people in that situation to begin with.

A person who believes it's wrong to kill, yet kills in self defense doesn't become an immoral or amoral person. Such a person would probably feel some measure of regret for their actions. But, a person who has no qualms about killing another under any circumstances lacks a moral base.

Maybe I'm confused about where everyone is coming from, but to me, having morals means that you have something inside of you that acts as a restraint...keeps you from deliberately engaging in actions that can and will harm others. Absolutes, you bet. That doesn't mean that certain reactions aren't understandable or justifiable. It also doesn't mean that moral absolutes are nonexistant or that a person who finds themselves in such a situation has somehow left all moral sense and obligation.

Your situation has nothing to do with the morality of the parents and everything to do with the lack of morality of the drunks. The same is true of sexual contact with a child, rape and killing in self defense. It's the perpetrators morals that are in question, not the victims.

163

Moral absolutes

by Aztec in

i keep saying i am going to start a thread on this topic so here goes.... what, if anything, is always morally wrong?

murder, rape, incest?

how much do you think your belief, or lack thereof, in a higher power influences your opinion?.

siegswife

I'm thinking somewhat along the same lines as Francois. To me, the concept of "moral" indicates a standard, which implies some base of measurement. I don't know if the idea of "moral" can exist without absolutes.

mor·al

(môr
adj.

1) Of or concerned with the judgment of the goodness or badness of human action and character: moral scrutiny; a moral quandary.

2) Teaching or exhibiting goodness or correctness of character and behavior: a moral lesson.

3) Conforming to standards of what is right or just in behavior; virtuous: a moral life.

4) Arising from conscience or the sense of right and wrong: a moral obligation.

5) Having psychological rather than physical or tangible effects: a moral victory; moral support.

6) Based on strong likelihood or firm conviction, rather than on the actual evidence: a moral certainty.

n.

1) The lesson or principle contained in or taught by a fable, a story, or an event.

2) A concisely expressed precept or general truth; a maxim.

morals

Rules or habits of conduct, especially of sexual conduct, with reference to standards of right and wrong: a person of loose morals; a decline in the public morals.

Not everyone has the same standard of morals, and some people don't seem to have any at all. Still, I'm thinking that you can't have "moral" without something to measure it by. "Absolute", if you will, regardless of what those absolutes are.

With that in mind I have to say that yes, there are moral absolutes because without them the concept of "moral" would be nonexistant.

33

The WTS Kills Another Child

by Robdar in

i spoke to my father this afternoon and received some bad news.

the daughter of a woman who was one of my childhood friends at the kh died today from leukemia.

she was 16 years old.

siegswife

I wanted to write some words of consolation...something...but I have no words. Robyn, I'm sorry that the insanity of the Watchtower has hit so close to home for you.

I don't know how those people can live with themselves.

38

Did you lose respect for your parents because of the JW / Watchtower crap ?

by run dont walk in

jw
friends

this is probaly one of my biggest problems i dealt with growing up in the jw crap.. it's no fun growing up alone.. i am sorry, but i hated my parents (probaly from the time i was 13), i know that is mean and a terrible thing to say, but that's how i felt.

i had no respect for them growing up in the borg.

they taught me nothing about ................. having a relationship/dating.

siegswife

Losing or not having respect for your parents isn't strictly a JW issue. I was raised by people who never were and never will be JW's. They never taught me the things you listed, run, but they expected me to somehow know about those things anyway. They disowned me for a time because I didn't live up to "their standards", which is quite strange since my dad is an alcoholic and my mom is a, err...how can I put this mildly...ok...my mom has the sophistication and social skills of a bag lady.

"Their standards" pretty much meant not associating with black people (they needed someone to look down on). They were upset when I ended up pregnant at 14, but nothing got their goat quite as much as when I started having black friends around about the age of 19.

Anyway, despite our bleak history, I still have respect my parents. They actually learned from their experience with me. The best friends they currently have are the black people who had a house built across the alley from them about 15 years ago. She comes over and checks on my dad if one of us takes my mom away for a few days (dad won't go anywhere other than the hospital when he has to).

I've realized that parents can only do the best they can. I know that I've never dealt with the same situation that most of you are, but believe me, I didn't appreciate it when my parents pulled the hypocrite act and turned against me because of something as bogus as predjudice. I'd always imagined that parents are supposed to be there for you no matter what. Boy, was I wrong.

I think that the people who hurt us the most are the people who are supposed to love us the most, and your friends and family are usually your worst enemies. I know that's a cliche, but it's true.

Parents are only human, and as czar said, we shouldn't expect miracles from them. Most of us are hindered by our own limitations, and the older generation seems to have had their limitations ingrained into them deeper and they expected the same sort of attitude from their kids. Don't know how or why that happened, but I've noticed that in older people. Of course, I don't know the ages of some of you that are posting, so I could possibly be the old fuddy duddy who hasn't a clue.

I guess what I'm saying is that you should try not to hate or disrespect your parents for being JW's. Most people feel or have felt that way about their parents, even those of us who weren't raised by religious fundamentalists. The trick is getting over it.

Lea

865

WoMD ... so where are they?

by Simon in

now, the war is over, the weapons were not used and of course have not been found.. how threatening could they be if they did not even use them when being invaded by a massive force (of the countries they hate)?!

perhaps, as many suspect, they didn't use them because they didn't have them?.

now we're being told that we'll have to be patient and give them time to find them.

siegswife

What is it that I don't understand?

I admit I haven't read this whole thread, but I was under the impression that you are in agreement with those who think that it's anti American to think that Shrub and his cronies are full of sh*t.

It's a damn shame that the republicans dogged Clinton (who I never liked) for the full 8 years that he was in office, only to bust him for lying about a bj, but they don't think that Shrub should be investigated for initiating an illegal war. Can you say BRAINWASHED. I knew you could.

865

WoMD ... so where are they?

by Simon in

now, the war is over, the weapons were not used and of course have not been found.. how threatening could they be if they did not even use them when being invaded by a massive force (of the countries they hate)?!

perhaps, as many suspect, they didn't use them because they didn't have them?.

now we're being told that we'll have to be patient and give them time to find them.

siegswife

I believe that sometimes it takes a collective to band together and yell at a powerful individual, saying "hey, you piece of shit, quit raping your mother!!".

That may be true six, but many of us think that we should be more worried about the b*st*rd that's raping our own mother at home, while we're away.

Expatbrit, Surely you aren't advocating the idea that a free market economy left unchecked is good for people? I wonder why most unions support the left rather than the right if the right is so freakin' righteous.

You do realize that if left unchecked, tptb would reduce us to a situation were we're not much better off than slaves, don't you? Why do you think that the working people saw the need for unions to begin with?

I realize that capitalism (sp?) and fascism go hand in hand, but I'll be damned if I ever let myself get to the point that my parents and grandparents got to...which allowed the abundance of corporate corruption to reach the point that it has...and feel somehow that I have to take whatever BS they try to cram down my throat (and on my back). Why do you think that even the American icon Barbie is now made in China? Because the fascists aren't making enough moola off the backs of Americans. Chinese help is cheaper.

Are you independently wealthy expatbrit?

865

WoMD ... so where are they?

by Simon in

now, the war is over, the weapons were not used and of course have not been found.. how threatening could they be if they did not even use them when being invaded by a massive force (of the countries they hate)?!

perhaps, as many suspect, they didn't use them because they didn't have them?.

now we're being told that we'll have to be patient and give them time to find them.

siegswife

What does it mean to be anti American? Some of us are convinced that the current administration is going against the ideals of America, therefore those who support it are acting un American.

The same is true on the other side. They're convinced that liberals are a bunch of commies who are un American.

As far as I understand, being American means accepting that we're a diverse people who have opinions from one extreme of the spectrum to the other. To try to undermine the convictions of those who are opposed to the government in power, calling them anti American and trying to silence them is the only instance that I see as being anti American. Being American means accepting that sometimes the other side is in power, and that either side always has a right to express their dissent. That doesn't mean you have to agree with them.

When they insist that you agree with them or you're being anti American then they are the ones who are off the mark regarding what being a good American citizen is, IMO.

865

WoMD ... so where are they?

by Simon in

now, the war is over, the weapons were not used and of course have not been found.. how threatening could they be if they did not even use them when being invaded by a massive force (of the countries they hate)?!

perhaps, as many suspect, they didn't use them because they didn't have them?.

now we're being told that we'll have to be patient and give them time to find them.

siegswife

The anti Americans are those US citizens who shout "anti Americanism" at others (Americans or not) who express dissent and dissatisfaction with the current course of the Bush administration.

Not everyone is enamored with fascism and some of us find it downright repugnant. More than a few of us don't like to be manipulated and lied to.

Lea

A voting US citizen who is of the anti Bush agenda class

128

The Holy Spirit... and DOES God Speak to Us?

by AGuest in

may you all have peace.

last night when i went to bed, my heart was quite heavy: there were things on it, in it, thereon... whatever... that i could not reconcile: i know what i have heard from my lord - how do i get others who love him to grasp that such a thing is possible, to understand that they do not have to take my word for it, but can ask him, for i am nothing more than a good-for-nothing-slave... and have "sold" myself into the "service" of the one who "bought" me... so that it is his will that i must obey... whether earthling man hears... or refrain?

this is not new "fight" with me, let me tell you: i know exactly how jeremiah felt, for i cannot count the times my heart has felt the same thing.

siegswife

I believe God speaks to me in that little voice of experience that I have inside my head. The one that tells me I should or shouldn't BE a certain way.

I try to listen to that voice even when it means accepting the repercussions that may be associated with taking responsiblility for my actions. I might want to try to discern all the *loopholes* that I could take to avoid that responsibility, but utimately that's just trying to avoid the inevitable...I'll eventually have to face the truth.

There's a guy I know (this is the truth) who two days ago got pulled off his sparkler stand (it's around the 4th of July and I work for the same people) because he got caught masterbating in his tent...after hours...while on crack. This guy is trying to deny that what he did was wrong. His tent is on a public street in small town PA. He keeps insisting that those people had no right busting in on him even though he was making noise while he was pleasuring himself. You know what I think about that guy and people like him who refuse to accept responsibility for their actions? I think they're on crack.

He hears that same little voice that tells him his sh*t is f***k*d up...but he doesn't want to listen to it or do anything to change it. "By what standards?" he asks.

By the standards of that little voice in your head and the undesirable results when you don't listen to it...that's what, Spanky Crackhead.

Sorry, just venting. That guy got on my last nerve today.