simwitness

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Posts by simwitness

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  26

  how do we know when we interpretate correctly?

  by evangelist in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i would like your help on this matter of the interpretation of the bible, because many people say we interpretate diffently and we have diffent understanding.

  how do we know when we interpretate the bible correctly?.

  i have a relative for instance says the gay sex life is ok and they interpretated the bible to back up the right to live a gay life.. how can i prove their interpretation is wrong?.

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  simwitness

  It also says that we do not need a teacher to tell us what it says.

  Adonai438, Where might I find this passage?
• 
  41

  Will the WBTS order JW's to Kill??

  by Anne Marie in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  dear post reader,.

  about nine months ago, while surfing through different jw web sites, i came across a reference to an e-mail that was sent to the poster.. the e-mail basically said that with the way that things are going with the society, i.e., so many " waking up", and not being so easy to mislead and control., that there very likely will be a "big" announcement regarding the order to kill the "apostates" and the "wicked people".. the source said that it would go something like this:.

  there would be talks, and some wordings in the magazines, alluding to an upcoming announcement.

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  simwitness

  Murder may be in the 10 Commandments, but is not totally un-scriptural. (There are many examples where folks murdered in God's name and were not punished).

  *** Nov 15, 1952 Watchtower ***
  Questions from Readers

  · In the case of where a father or mother or son or daughter is disfellowshiped, how should such person be treated by members of the family in their family relationship?-P. C., Ontario, Canada.

  We are not living today among theocratic nations where such members of our fleshly family relationship could be exterminated for apostasy from God and his theocratic organization, as was possible and was ordered in the nation of Israel in the wilderness of Sinai and in the land of Palestine. "Thou shalt surely kill him; thy hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. And thou shalt stone him to death with stones, because he hath sought to draw thee away from Jehovah thy God, . . . And all Israel shall hear, and fear, and shall do no more any such wickedness as this is in the midst of thee."-Deut. 13:6-11, AS.

  Being limited by the laws of the worldly nation in which we live and also by the laws of God through Jesus Christ, we can take action against apostates only to a certain extent, that is, consistent with both sets of laws. The law of the land and God's law through Christ forbid us to kill apostates, even though they be members of our own flesh-and-blood family relationship. However, God's law requires us to recognize their being disfellowshiped from his congregation, and this despite the fact that the law of the land in which we live requires us under some natural obligation to live with and have dealings with such apostates under the same roof.

  (there's more to this quote, you can get it at the quotes site)

  So, new light could be introduced that would say "killing is ok".

  However, like many have previously stated, I personally do not think it will happen.

  .....
• 
  132

  Can any Witness possibly anwser this question?

  by jerome in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  hello all... i came across this line of questioning many months on the inet so i decided that i would submit just this once to peer pressure and make a usefull contribution to the board.. here is the question... is jesus just "a god?".

  many of the regular inet surfers would have come across this line of questioning before so if you have you could just sit back and relax and read the replys.. <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>.

  me: so is he a 'lesser true god' or a 'lesser false god?'.

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  simwitness

  These translators were representatives of churches that embraced the Nicene Creed and so, presumably, trinitarians themselves.

  Are you aware of the full history of the "Nicene Creed" and how Constantine modified what the original church fathers intended?

  A short quote from the article:
  

  The Council of Nicaea

  The Council of Nicaea is the model for all church councils which followed. Almost 300 bishops and important clerics attended, "including all those who had taken part in the Arian controversy to date" Hosius of Cordova presided, and Constantine attended. Arius was present as an observer, and his defenders were Eusebius of Nicomedia and Eusebius of Caesarea. On the opposing side were Alexander of Alexandria and Athanasius, supported by Eustathius of Antioch and Hosius -- all bitterly opposed to Arius personally. Strangely enough, the Christian church may have remained intact if it was not for the interference of Constantine. Early in the council, "Eusebius of Caesarea introduced a carefully worded creed, based on Scripture, that neither affirmed nor denied Arius' views. No one could object to anything in it, and Constantine praised it." This original creed would have ended the Arian Controversy and brought stability to the Christian church. But Constantine showed his instability, and under the influence of Hosius, the emperor proposed to add to the creed the term "homoousios" (Gk. of the same substance) implying in a sense that the Son and Father were like two pieces of wood cut from the same tree. This one word ruined the compromise creed created by the council, and excluded Arius' views entirely; it also opened itself up to Sabellianism, a previously condemned heresy. Criticisms were raised that the word did not exist anywhere in the Scriptures; but since the emperor was the one who proposed it, "scarcely anyone felt able to speak against it" [14]. Constantine proceeded to threaten exile for anyone who refused to sign the new creed, and all but three did. Arius and two others refused to sell out to Constantine's new creed and were condemned by the council and exiled accordingly. The Council then proceeded to deal with the case of the Melitius, set rules for calculating the date of Easter, recognized the patriarchal office of the bishops of Alexandria and Antioch, and decided several minor issues.

  (taken from http://www.deism.com/counterrebuttal2.htm.

  Now, why bring this up? To my earlier point: Man has tried for THOUSANDS of years to "mold God" into an image that he (man) can explain or deal with.

  1 example:
  1. When Man needed an excuse to rape/pilage/destroy others, they claimed rightousness in the site of God, and God was written as a vengful/Powerful "protector of his chosen people" God.(Most of the OT as applied to the Isrealites many wars).

  My point:
  One's knowledge of God cannot be solely based on writings of any kind. It must come from "within". If God created us in his image, then we must have the ability to "know god" without any outside influence. (I guess it is another thing to prove it)

  The writings that we are debating are 3 things:
  1. Dated. 1900+ years old. One wonders why there is nothing more recent.
  2. Written from a completely different culture,life experience and languuage. ->Leaves everything open to debate when it comes to translation and interpertation
  3. Man has had his hand in it deciding what was/wasn't inspired. I am sure it would come as a surprise to many that the books of Revelations and Acts (among others) were not considered inspired writings by many of the early "fathers", but were included by vote.

  .....
• 
  132

  Can any Witness possibly anwser this question?

  by jerome in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  hello all... i came across this line of questioning many months on the inet so i decided that i would submit just this once to peer pressure and make a usefull contribution to the board.. here is the question... is jesus just "a god?".

  many of the regular inet surfers would have come across this line of questioning before so if you have you could just sit back and relax and read the replys.. <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>.

  me: so is he a 'lesser true god' or a 'lesser false god?'.

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  simwitness

  whats a god cubed?

  What every single "revealed" religion attempts to do to God, "box" him into their very own "we are right, you are wrong" definition.

  God is what god is. Allways has been, allways will be. Only man would attempt to limit this in any way, shape or FORM.

  --- it's time to think outside of the box!
• 
  2

  a question about the "annointed" and ...

  by simwitness in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  can someone help me understand the chronology of the "144,000" doctrine of the wtbs?.

  what i am looking for is quotes/pointers to the publications about:.

  1. how they decided who was of this "special" class.. 2. when the cuttoff point was for being part of it.

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  simwitness

  Can someone help me understand the chronology of the "144,000" doctrine of the WTBS?

  What I am looking for is quotes/pointers to the publications about:

  1. How they decided who was of this "special" class.
  2. When the cuttoff point was for being part of it. (I think it is 1935, but am not sure)
  3. How a person "knows" or "proves" they are of the annointed.

  I am wondering what the WTBS will do when it can no longer "prove" that it's GB can possibly be from this class, and what kind of new light will be provided for this.

  As other's have pointed out, the more recent books/magazines have a "lack" of material in them... wondering how the WTBS will deal with it.

  Thanks!
• 
  8

  "Three Dissertations" -- The Witness ...

  by accuracy in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  back in the 1517 the catholic priest martin luther posted his "95 theses" on the door of a church in wittenberg and began the protestant reformation.

  martin luther did not mean to start a revolution, though he attacked certain legalistic doctrines of the church and questioned the authority of the pope.

  called to recant, he replied, "unless i am convinced of error by the testimony of scripture or by clear reason, i cannot and will not recant anything, for it is neither safe nor honest to act against one's conscience.".

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  simwitness

  Can someone please post details on how to obtain this book?

  Thanks!
• 
  1

  WT Quote that Abraham & co. have earthly hope?

  by stocwach in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i am looking for a specific example in any wt publications where the society unequivocally believes faithful men of old have an earthly hope, an not a heavenly one.. thanks in advance!

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  simwitness

  Look up "Beth-Sarim" in the older publications... 2 come to mind:

  "The New World" Pg 104.
  "Millions now living will never die"

  Both by Rutherford.
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  23

  Anyone heard of or been through a JW exorcism?

  by Mimilly in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  greetings, and wow!

  did i enter this forum with a biggie.

  i've been lurking for quite awhile - with some threads, laughing to tears, and others, reliving those years.

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  simwitness

  Great Quote:

  *** w66 12/15 *** p739
  Some persons have reported gaining relief by burning letters from relatives who dabble in spiritism. Even if an article from a spiritist is an expensive one, is keeping it worth the danger? One woman was tormented for years by the demons; finally she got rid of many household effects that came from a spiritistic relative. "The material loss," she wrote, "was worth the peaceful calm that came over our house and family."

  COnsidering the WTBS cited Johannes Greber for "support" on a number of occasions! For those that are unaware, Johannes Greber was well known as a spiritist! 2 books he wrote: "Communicating with the Spirit world of God" and he had his own translation of the New Testament, which the WTBS used for a number of years as "support" for thier John 1:1 "a god" translation!

  He (Greber) has been cited a number of times in the WTBS publications!
  See http://quotes.jehovahswitnesses.com/spiritism.htm (bottom half of the page) for details!

  WOW!

  I guess it's time to have me a book burnin!
• 
  10

  One little lie spoils the whole thing....

  by simwitness in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  one thing i remember the most about being "in the truth" was the basic premise that all other religious orgs on the earth at one time or another taught a lie (and or still was teaching lies).

  this was the "crowning jewel" for the wtbs.

  they never "lied".. in a recent conversation with an elder, he made mention of this again.

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  simwitness

  As I said earlier, that is not a "quote" but the gist of the argument.

  Basically he was saying that "God hates lies, false religion (all but the WTBS) teach lies (like christmas, etc..), Therefore God will not recognize them." And of course, he said that any lie was enough to do this.

  He also pointed to Mathew 7:21-23 as a "proof" for this.

  21.Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven
  22.Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?
  23:And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'

  -NKJV from www.blueletterbible.com
• 
  10

  One little lie spoils the whole thing....

  by simwitness in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  one thing i remember the most about being "in the truth" was the basic premise that all other religious orgs on the earth at one time or another taught a lie (and or still was teaching lies).

  this was the "crowning jewel" for the wtbs.

  they never "lied".. in a recent conversation with an elder, he made mention of this again.

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  simwitness

  You are correct, that "quote" was not exactly what was said, just the gist of it.

  IMHO, the majority of follower's (and this included the majority of the elders that I am aquainted with) do not know the "BS" that they sell. They Honestly believe what the WTBS spills out.

  If they have followed the societys "dont question us" dialogue, then they do not realize the BS, and even if they did, they would not state it.

  Does a Pig "know" that it is rolling around in the mud? If it does, does it "care"? Or does it continue because it is comfortable?

  ...