Posts by simwitness

20

WT admits error.

by refiners fire in

i just had a look through ray franz two books and i didnt see this information in there.

though i cant escape the vague feeling it might be in isocf.

if ray has already used this example, apologies.... .

simwitness

Refiners,

FYI, the "Peoples Pulpit" was an early name for the publishing corporation. It was not an outside group. This is documented in the Divine Pourpose book.

IMHO, I think that Rutherford was using the Finished Mystery as a way to later discredit Russell.

I also think that the Watchtower's Admissions were a way to discredit the "bible students" that continued on after the split when Rutherford took control. Remember, that it wasn't until (about) 1935 that the "Jehovah's Witnnesses" Name was adopted, until then the IBSA, the Bible Students, the "Peoples Pulpit Association", etc... were all one and the same group. When Russell died, many of the original members of the "Bible Students" chose not to follow Rutherford.

So, the Watchtower's admissions were really more of an admission that early writing were "not inspired", and then they try to muddy who wrote/published them as well.

19

The Truth About "New Light"

by Farkel in

ah!

new light!

what dub worth his salt doesn't eagerly anticipate each district assembly or watchtower magazine to "glean" any "new light" that might be presented?

simwitness

And the subtle point about this :

In their subtle admission of wrongness, it seems to me they always framed in as "some have gone ahead and wrongly interpreted (or tried to put a date on)." They NEVER seemed to say "WE were wrong," it was the R&F or unnamed "some

Is that most that accept that fail to recognize where the "some" got the information/proof that allowed them to "wrongly interpet".

Last I checked, the Time/NewsWeek/WashingtonPost// CNN news... (etc) never published predictions of armageddon, resurection of the prophets, or forcasted christ's presence... let alone required everyone to believe them, upon pain of disfellowshipping, shunning, everlasting purgatory... wait, the Witnesses don't believe in hell, so, again, what was the punishment for not believing? Sleep? Quiet, undisturbed sleep?

... i done forgot why i was ever worried about following this cult....

14

Keeping the Dubs Away

by Yerusalyim in

jw
friends

i've come up with a sure fire way to keep the dubs away from my door.

this will work way better than the do not call list at the kh.

beings that my wife is a fallen away dub, and that the three step-kids were dubs, i probably have 10 different book bags laying around the house.

simwitness

I find the two stone Gargoyles at the entrance seem to keep them away.

Apparently, they understand that Gargoyles were to protect the dwelling from evil spirits!

18

FINALLY stood up to my father re: religion!

by back2dafront in

as you all may remember, i left the organization 4 years ago - never df'd, never dissassociated, just left.

my parents initially tried everything they could to get me to come back but to no avail.

they've never really shunned me because we still talk on the phone, but seeing that we live on the opposite coasts, i've only seen them once in 4 years.

simwitness

Just an observation:

Do those that have sex before marraige have a higher divorce rate than those that don't?"
Interestingly I have heard that people who live together before marriage do have a higher divorce rate than those who don't -

You always have to question how polls like this are done, For example if they pole those in divorce court, or if they poll those that are in happy marraiges.

Seems no one asks those in happy marraiges how they got together. They only concern themselves with the divorce side of things... as if looking for somewhere to put the blame.

Speaking from personal experience, the first b**ch I married, I lived with first, and we divorced five years later (almost to the day!) The second lady I married, we lived together at first, and are happily married 12 years later, and will spend the rest of our lives together.

Hows that for stats? Does that prove or disprove the point?

Anyway, I digress.

Back2daFront... I wish you luck in your conversations with your father. It sounds like you have a good starting point...

6

"Early Bible Students and pure language"

by MacHislopp in

jw
friends

do you remember that the wtbs in

were " the early bible students " the voice chosen

by jehovah to speak the pure language.."??

simwitness

I personally like this:

Asking reasonable questions and searching Gods Word and Christian publications to find Scriptural answers

1. Define "reasonable questions"?

2. What are "acceptable" christian publications to the Witnesses? What would happen to you if you were caught at a "Zondervan's" bookstore? or in the bible Aisle of your local Walden's?

12

Watchtower publications and Copyright Law

by Jourles in

jw
friends

in the past, i have told my friends that if i were not in the industry in which i am employed today, i would have been an attorney.

to me, law has always been an intriguing area to be involved in.

not only does researching information that pertains to personal matters teach you the basics on how to conduct yourself in court and the due process of what is involved, you also learn many various laws that may have been totally foreign to you beforehand.. many times on this site and on other personal websites across the globe, religious entities, or publishing corporations, have been a deciding factor in what is and what is not posted, copied, and presented.

simwitness

Interestingly...

My take on this is from the first paragraph:

The Supreme Court on Wednesday upheld longstanding copyrights designed to protect the profits of songs, books and cartoon characters, a huge victory for Disney and other companies.

So, if copyright laws are "designed to protect the profits", and the WTBS is a "non profit" organization...

Are their books/publications "given" or "sold"?

Other than having "something to hide", why should the WTBS care if their publications are "given freely"? Seems to me that it would help to spread "the good news of the kingdom"....

18

For plmkrzy

by AlanF in

hi plmkrzy,.

while talking to a friend tonight, he reminded me of a thread nearly two months old: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.aspx?id=39119&site=3&page=3 .

at the end you posted:.

simwitness

The problem is simple in principle: How can any human decide which writings are inspired and which are not, unless they are inspired themselves? And who would dare to claim to be inspired? And so the disputing continues.

That's a keeper.

And of course, if the Catholic church, in the beginning was in fact inspired, who were the reformists to question it?

And if the reformists were in fact inspired, why did they accept all but "a couple" of the books that the Catholics chose? And why were no "new" books added? (like the Gospel of Thomas, etc...).

It's all about control. And fear is the tool that the religions use to assert that control.

53

Staying Awake Or Keeping In A Frenzy?

by AlanF in

we ex-jws know very well how much the watchtower society put us under pressure to believe that "armageddon is just around the corner".

they've been doing it in one form or another ever since charles taze russell began publishing his nonsense.

in 1877 he advocated that true christians should believe that christ would "take them home" in 1878. when that didn't happen he moved the event up to 1881. after that he focused on 1914.. the society is still doing pretty much the same thing, building up expectations and then revising them, decade after decade.

simwitness

AlanF (and contributers)...

Many thanks for this thread.

It helps to remind me how "devilishly tricky" the WT (and most other "religions") are when it comes thier teachings.

It also helps me remember that simple reason is all that is really required when dealing with them.

Waiting -

Sherlock had Moriarty.

5

The name 'Jesus' in Revelation...................

by ISP in

1:9 jesus.

12:17 jesus.

14:12 jesus.

simwitness

This idea is only a problem for those who insist that every (humanly-written) word of the (humanly-collected) Bible (humanly-approved) canon must be divinely inspired (as evaluated by humans).

Couldn't have said it any better myself!!!

163

So, where DID the 1914 timeline go awry?

by Xander in

okay, i know that historical evidence is that jerusalem fell in 586/7 instead of 607 - as the wtbts would have.

however, that is not compelling enough to show a hypothetical jw.

they (generally) must not only be show that the opposition is correct, but that the wtbts is wrong.

simwitness

...ahem.... raising hand...

Can I interject a thought here?

You asked.. "When did the 1914 timeline go awry?"

In the most direct sense, it went "awry" in 1915, the minute they had to start making excuses for their failed "prophecies", and missed "expectations". For certainly, had that date been "fixed in stone" and been "God's dates, not man's", then it could not have gone awry.

And while WW1 certainly was world changing event, many believe that the French Revolution (in 1799) had a bigger impact on world affairs, and coincidently, was also pointed to as the time of Christ's return, and the beginning of the end. Similarly, WW2 also had a profound affect on the world's affairs.

Every Generation, indeed every individual, has these "world changing" events. 9-11 is the most recent. To try and single any one out as the "sign" is to be both short sighted and ignorant of history.