Posts by simwitness

12

Sunday's WT study

by RunningMan in

jw
friends

i need some information, and i hope that someone on this forum can help me.. yesterday, my mother in law was telling my wife about the wonderful wt study yesterday morning.

apparently, it was the one where they discuss the annual report for last year.. she mentioned that the article pointed to a 30% increase in baptisms.

since we don't have the article, we have no idea what she is talking about.

simwitness

Lets see if I can get the math straight:

6,304,645 publishers, a 3.1% increase.

= 190,000 new "publishers".

Number of hours to "convert" each one:

1,202,381,302 divided by the number of new converts = 6328 hours invested.

Must be a real hard sell. If we were to look in the book of Acts, seems that the conversion took only minutes (if that) before the "Great Apostacy".

This also means that each publisher spent 190 hours in the field service, or aproximately 4 hours per week.

Just think of the good that could be done if they put that amount of resources toward something interesting, like helping the homeless, neighborhood programs, etc...

16

Same Old Same Old New Light

by Stephanus in

jw
friends

in the march 15 watchtower there is an article entitled the early christians and the mosaic law.

it takes a watchtower style look at the debates over what relevance the law had that took place in the early christian era.

this is the passage that sums it all up for the loyal dub (of course):.

simwitness

wait a minute, wait a minute...

What's this bogus question:

If I had lived at that time, how would I have responded as God's will was progressivly revealed?

1. Last I checked, there was so much "pouring out" of the holy spirit that there was no "progressive revealing" of anything. Those that knew, knew.

2. The major thing to note, especially in Acts, is that there was much disagreement about things, so much so that they (the holy spirit directed ones, mind you) had arguments over what was right/wrong, neccesary and unneccesary.

3. Show me one scripture/passage etc... that points to a "progressive revealing". Point to one passage that says "My will be revealed to you as I see fit" from God/Holy Spirit/Christ. Everything that I have ever read was very cut/dry. (helps when it is written after the fact, of course)

Yes, Life in itself is a journey, and many things are revealed to us on it. If I were to claim "direction by the holy spirit" or to be "God's Mouthpiece" I had better not need to do any backpedaling.

Such a subtle little question that is, simply because it leads the reader to believe, without proof, that there was a "progressive revealing" of anything. Best I could tell, God's Will at that point was very clear cut. Believe in Christ and you live, dont believe and you die. (and since everyone that was alive at that point is now dead, kinda hard to say where that got them).

25

Is the GB and FDS the same thing?

by William Penwell in

jw
friends

this may have come up before in discussion so my apologies if it old stuff.

interesting point that the district overseer seemed to make a distinction between the governing body and the faithful and discreet slave class.

when i was growing up it was always the same thing.

simwitness

The Faithful and Discreet slave and it's Governing Body

I always thought the point of the "Faithful and Discreet Slave" was that he/she did not NEED GOVERNING! He did what he was supposed to do, period. I also don't remember anyhting in the parable that says that the slave had a checklist or set of rules to follow.

After all, when the master returned, he found that everything was as it should be, and then appointed the slave over all the belongings (which is kinda strange, if you think about it, since apparently while the master was gone, the slave was, in affect, master over all the belongings...)

Edited to add: If you took a survey of who the FD&S were, it would be in favor of the Governing Body/headquarters/writers of the materials. The "Rank and File" would never suggest they were part of that class, unless they were part of the "annointed". I am pretty sure taht other than those that get fed at the memorial, the annointed in the congregations are not looked at in any special way.

Edited by - simwitness on 4 February 2003 14:12:17

26

Cain Killed Abel

by Windchaser in

abel.

he loved cain, he took care of cain.

cain would fall into a lake and pretend he was drowning.

simwitness

So, was Cain the founding member of PETA?

20

WT admits error.

by refiners fire in

i just had a look through ray franz two books and i didnt see this information in there.

though i cant escape the vague feeling it might be in isocf.

if ray has already used this example, apologies.... .

simwitness

Another minor point:

I don't have specific proof of this, but I understand that the "Studies" were still available on the Watchtower order forms up until the 50-60s. The finished mystery was edited/reprinted in a smaller version (cut out the Ezekial bits) in 1927.

20

WT admits error.

by refiners fire in

i just had a look through ray franz two books and i didnt see this information in there.

though i cant escape the vague feeling it might be in isocf.

if ray has already used this example, apologies.... .

simwitness

Refiners,

FYI, the "Peoples Pulpit" was an early name for the publishing corporation. It was not an outside group. This is documented in the Divine Pourpose book.

IMHO, I think that Rutherford was using the Finished Mystery as a way to later discredit Russell.

I also think that the Watchtower's Admissions were a way to discredit the "bible students" that continued on after the split when Rutherford took control. Remember, that it wasn't until (about) 1935 that the "Jehovah's Witnnesses" Name was adopted, until then the IBSA, the Bible Students, the "Peoples Pulpit Association", etc... were all one and the same group. When Russell died, many of the original members of the "Bible Students" chose not to follow Rutherford.

So, the Watchtower's admissions were really more of an admission that early writing were "not inspired", and then they try to muddy who wrote/published them as well.

19

The Truth About "New Light"

by Farkel in

ah!

new light!

what dub worth his salt doesn't eagerly anticipate each district assembly or watchtower magazine to "glean" any "new light" that might be presented?

simwitness

And the subtle point about this :

In their subtle admission of wrongness, it seems to me they always framed in as "some have gone ahead and wrongly interpreted (or tried to put a date on)." They NEVER seemed to say "WE were wrong," it was the R&F or unnamed "some

Is that most that accept that fail to recognize where the "some" got the information/proof that allowed them to "wrongly interpet".

Last I checked, the Time/NewsWeek/WashingtonPost// CNN news... (etc) never published predictions of armageddon, resurection of the prophets, or forcasted christ's presence... let alone required everyone to believe them, upon pain of disfellowshipping, shunning, everlasting purgatory... wait, the Witnesses don't believe in hell, so, again, what was the punishment for not believing? Sleep? Quiet, undisturbed sleep?

... i done forgot why i was ever worried about following this cult....

14

Keeping the Dubs Away

by Yerusalyim in

jw
friends

i've come up with a sure fire way to keep the dubs away from my door.

this will work way better than the do not call list at the kh.

beings that my wife is a fallen away dub, and that the three step-kids were dubs, i probably have 10 different book bags laying around the house.

simwitness

I find the two stone Gargoyles at the entrance seem to keep them away.

Apparently, they understand that Gargoyles were to protect the dwelling from evil spirits!

18

FINALLY stood up to my father re: religion!

by back2dafront in

as you all may remember, i left the organization 4 years ago - never df'd, never dissassociated, just left.

my parents initially tried everything they could to get me to come back but to no avail.

they've never really shunned me because we still talk on the phone, but seeing that we live on the opposite coasts, i've only seen them once in 4 years.

simwitness

Just an observation:

Do those that have sex before marraige have a higher divorce rate than those that don't?"
Interestingly I have heard that people who live together before marriage do have a higher divorce rate than those who don't -

You always have to question how polls like this are done, For example if they pole those in divorce court, or if they poll those that are in happy marraiges.

Seems no one asks those in happy marraiges how they got together. They only concern themselves with the divorce side of things... as if looking for somewhere to put the blame.

Speaking from personal experience, the first b**ch I married, I lived with first, and we divorced five years later (almost to the day!) The second lady I married, we lived together at first, and are happily married 12 years later, and will spend the rest of our lives together.

Hows that for stats? Does that prove or disprove the point?

Anyway, I digress.

Back2daFront... I wish you luck in your conversations with your father. It sounds like you have a good starting point...

6

"Early Bible Students and pure language"

by MacHislopp in

jw
friends

do you remember that the wtbs in

were " the early bible students " the voice chosen

by jehovah to speak the pure language.."??

simwitness

I personally like this:

Asking reasonable questions and searching Gods Word and Christian publications to find Scriptural answers

1. Define "reasonable questions"?

2. What are "acceptable" christian publications to the Witnesses? What would happen to you if you were caught at a "Zondervan's" bookstore? or in the bible Aisle of your local Walden's?