Biblical scholars will be appearing at the 'Covert Messiah' Conference at Conway Hall in London on the 19th of October to present this controversial discovery to the British public.
cognisonance
JoinedPosts by cognisonance
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Ancient Confession Found: 'We Invented Jesus Christ'
by cognisonance inbiblical scholars will be appearing at the 'covert messiah' conference at conway hall in london on the 19th of october to present this controversial discovery to the british public.. http://uk.prweb.com/releases/2013/10/prweb11201273.htm.
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"You knew what the consequences were when YOU decided to leave The Truth. This is YOUR decision and the outcome is YOUR responsibility."
by nicolaou inhow many of us have had to deal with a version of that retort?!
it's hurtful and i suspect - for some - that's partly because of the nagging feeling that our families may have a point.. but do they?.
i was 15 when i got baptised, is it reasonable that as the 50 year old man i'll be on my next birthday i continue to be held to a decision i made as a schoolboy?.
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cognisonance
I enjoyed this thread, as I have heard that line before and it always burned me up inside. The blame is being put on us. By their logic, our loved ones too made a decision and have responsibility. After all they signed up for this religion too, which should mean it has the consequences of having to shun anyone that leaves, even a family member, or risk loosing their "relationship with god" or getting kicked out too.
I know some family and friends of mine who struggle with shunning me, doing it becuase they think it's the "right thing to do" or is required of them, but I can tell they really don't want to have to do it. They are just as "free" to not shun me as I was to leave. In the end, it's much easier to just blame me instead and say this is all my fault, not see that the problem is with the religion.
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Feeling not well: guilt
by Gorbatchov ingorby is not feeling well at the moment.
wife and kids went to the kh last week.
gorby stayed at home watching live soccer game psv - milan.
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cognisonance
Gorby,
It is frustrating. I lost my spouse, my childhood best friend, and other family members I car about. I also do have some found memories in the cult, so I can relate to feeling ambilient at times. Sometimes looking back it seems almost to crazy to be true, how can anyone believe that religion, but yet here we are and our family does indeed believe. Hang in there. Feel free to vent here. I like this website as it seems to help as a support group in a way.
-Cog
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Does your Theology Align with Reality?
by cofty inthesits are fond of reminding us that science cannot prove there is no god, and in this they are correct.
however, science should not be dismissed so lightly by anybody who values a faith that is more than a mere fantasy.. theologians like john shelby spong have shown the intellectual honesty to embrace the truths that science has discovered and adapted their religious beliefs to take account of reality.
sadly many theists lack the courage to do likewise.
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cognisonance
The ambiguity of language and failing to agree on precise meanings BEFORE discussing leads to time wasted on confusion... If it weren't for such ambiguity, internet forum debates would cease today, and peace and goodwill would break out amongst men!
+1
The imprecision of language is a big problem. This is why I tried to help clarify what is meant by an "incontrovertible" [scientific] fact. As former JWs I'm sure we all remember how the leadership would say they aren't a cult becuase it doesn't match their definition, etc.
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Does your Theology Align with Reality?
by cofty inthesits are fond of reminding us that science cannot prove there is no god, and in this they are correct.
however, science should not be dismissed so lightly by anybody who values a faith that is more than a mere fantasy.. theologians like john shelby spong have shown the intellectual honesty to embrace the truths that science has discovered and adapted their religious beliefs to take account of reality.
sadly many theists lack the courage to do likewise.
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cognisonance
(I am aware DNA is said to point to a common origin for all life on earth, but is that really certain either? Or just a good construction on the basis of the current understanding?)
I assist with bioinformatics at a lab studying evolutionary biology. The probability that Humans and Chimpanzees share a more recent common ancestor than Gibbons, Gorillas, and Baboons is so high (or for many other phylogenetic analyses), that we might as well call it “really certain.”
Studying the DNA relationships between organisms and determining how they are related by common ancestry commonly uses Bayesian probabilities. In this statistical framework evidence (data) about whether something is true or not is expressed in terms of degrees of belief, how certain something is to be the case.
So with common ancestry as mentioned above, there is a very high probability that humans and chimps share a common ancestor.
So no, in this specific example, I cannot say with 100% certainty that humans and chimps have a common ancestor. However, when you take this evidence and combine it with other forms of DNA evidence, and especially other independent fields of science all coming to the same conclusion (common ancestry), it becomes very difficult to see evolution as anything other than a scientific fact, an observation that has been repeatedly confirmed and accepted as true. Such trueness is provisional of course, since it can be improved upon.
Think of it this way. Gravity is a scientific fact. Has been that way back in Newton’s day, through Einstein’s, and up to our day. Yet, the specifics about gravity have changed overtime. What people accept as fact in the 1800s has changed. But the underlying fundamentals have not. Common ancestry is just one of those fundamentals. It’s a scientific fact.
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(dumb?) Fox News Host says Stupid Things to Scholar Who Wrote About Jesus
by fulltimestudent inwhether this woman asked these questions of her own accord, or they were written by staffers, is not the point.
the real point is how can people in a country with some of the world's best universities ask such dumb questions.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqhmllq-odw#at=13.
... and if you wonder what reza aslan's views are about jesus, listen to him here, courtesy of all saints church in pasadena a few days ago.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zi4o242d2s.
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cognisonance
Unfortunately, like many here the interviewer did not do her research and ask the right questions. Searching the web one learns he does not have a PHD in religion, while he does have a PHD.
He does not teach religion, he is an assistant Professor of Creative Writing at University of California, Riverside.
He is founder of a media company, specializing in Middle East media.
Do a search yourself, (while I found many of his writings appear to have been scrubbed there is still much out there) and decide, can a person who misrepresents his own background be trusted to present accurate information.
I'm not so sure he misrepresented himself. He has a PhD in Sociology of Relgion.
Additionally, as regards being a professor/historian of religion, here is a comment defending Aslan's credentials on the First Thoughts article that questions them:
Mark Juergensmeyer July 29th, 2013 | 9:19 pm Since i was Reza’s thesis adviser at the Univ of California-Santa Barbara, I can testify that he is a religious studies scholar. (I am a sociologist of religion with a position in sociology and an affiliation with religious studies). Though Reza’s PhD is in sociology most of his graduate course work at UCSB was in the history of religion in the dept of religious studies. Though none of his 4 degrees are in history as such, he is a “historian of religion” in the way that that term is used at the Univ of Chicago to cover the field of comparative religion; and his theology degree at Harvard covered Bible and Church history, and required him to master New Testament Greek. So in short, he is who he says he is.
The original source is his tweet and comment:
I explain Reza Aslan's relig studies credentials in a comment I've posted at the end of the First Things piece. http:// bit.ly/16uDYH4
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Size Doesn't Matter but a FALSE PREMISE does!
by Terry inedward bishop elliot, anglican theologian and scholar, began a massive undertaking in 1837. .
by the time he finished his two-thousand five hundred page book, hours with the apocalypse, he may as well have created a highly-contagious virus in a test tube!.
his book contained 10,000 modern and ancient references toward developing a prophetic school of interpretation.. this tome became the masterwork foundation for any who dared diddle in bible prophecy for decades to come.
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cognisonance
The bible contains many fulfilled prophecies that would have been unable to be orchrastrated by man, thus leading many to ascribe divine authorship.
Hmm... That article tries to show probabilities for these "prophecies" to come true on their own. It says thare are calculated as follows:
*The estimates of probability included herein come from a group of secular research scientists. As an example of their method of estimation, consider their calculations for this first prophecy cited:
- Since the Messiah's ministry could conceivably begin in any one of about 5000 years, there is, then, one chance in about 5000 that his ministry could begin in 26 A.D.
- Since the Messiah is God in human form, the possibility of his being killed is considerably low, say less than one chance in 10.
- Relative to the second destruction of Jerusalem, this execution has roughly an even chance of occurring before or after that event, that is, one chance in 2.
Why the appeal to annoymous authority? Which "secular scientists?" And how could one apply science to bible prophecy? I really doubt these people are scientists, following the scientific method (you know observations, hypothesis/predictions, peer review journals, etc.).
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Bitter apostates
by Laika inwitnesses often go on about apostates being spiteful and bitter.
when you get cut off, shunned, or threatened with shunning just for the audacity of thinking differently, it's not surprising that getting angry at the witnesses is the reaction - it's like a self fulfilling prophecy.. but also, i recently posted an email from a 'friend' on this board who told me that everyone he'd spoken to about me said i had changed, become like another person.
it didn't occur to him that the day before i told my parents i'd quit the religion just 3 weeks ago, i met him for lunch, we had a good time and he didn't know anything was up.
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cognisonance
Cold Steel,
Were you ever a witness? Just curious.
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The Mermaid Goes to the District Convention and this is what She Hears
by Cadellin in[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:officedocumentsettings> <o:allowpng /> </o:officedocumentsettings> </xml><![endif].
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[endif][if gte mso 10]> <mce:style><!
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cognisonance
Evil, poisonous, unruly, poisonous lies, deceive minds, prefer the table of the demons, slanderous, infected, diseased workers, pushed away from Jah's table, decided on the table of the demons, oppose Jah's will, part of the seed of the serpent, prideful, reject counsel, have earthly wisdom, animalistic, pride that escalates into bitterness, jealousy, reject God's service, draw men after themselves, only claim to worship God, too prideful to preach, like kidnappers, prey upon others, speak twisted things, create divisions, resort to distortions, half-truths, lies, malicious, intend to deceive, speak counterfeit words, twist scriptures, employ clandestine methods, use smooth talk in blogs, don't care about others, hypocrites, false faced, claim to be your brother, don't have an original thought, only want to criticize, claim to serve God but reject his representatives. Reject GB, reject overseers, reject elders, lie to authorities, seek to discredit organization, use media to lie, picket in front of Bethel, have wicked works, like someone with an infectious disease, mentally diseased, want to infect others, like rotten fish, not sincere in their expressions, double-hearted, want to undermine your faith, opposers, walk against the truth, part of the antichrist, work with Satan in his evil kitchen.
Wow! This is what my family and others I care about are being told about me? And then the religion trys to block me from creating the oppurtunity to clear up this misunderstanding (misunderstanding on my family and friends part since this is what they've been told, but of course lies on the religion's part). Oddly, me being an atheist, I'm suprised they consider apostates those that still belive in God. What about me? I know god doesn't exist and neither does satan. It's one big false premise. I just wish I had the chance to clear this up with my family! I'm not what they are being told that I am. I also do not have the intent to "prey on others," or "deceive." They also slander my character and say I don't care about my family and friends, that I am not sincere? Really? The nerve!
3. Evolution is now lumped in with the trinity and hellfire as false doctrine.
I remember them doing that in a Watchtower a couple years back. Really, Really odd! What does science have to do with religious doctrines? It couldn't be more far aware. What a huge categorial error!
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If man evolved?
by tornapart ini know anyone who believes in evolution is going to say that there is no 'if' about it.
however.... if man evolved over hundreds of thousands of years ago, why were there only about 200-300 million people alive 2,000 years ago?
surely there'd have been many billions by then?.
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cognisonance
Hey Cog our Phizzy was being Ironic, he is already well and truly on the right side of the debate!
Sorry Phizzy... just saw your question without reading the context...