Posts by notsurewheretogo

19

How can a "God, who Cannot Lie" (Titus 1:2) justify DESTRUCTION?

by fedup in

i was raised as a jw, most of my family is still in, i regular pioneered for 5 years, elder for even longer.

preached for over 40 years that the 1914 generation will see the end, etc, etc... believed every single word, and preached it with total conviction.. i have not been active for approx 7 years, completely faded now, mainly because i couldn't believe a loving god would destroy me, after coming to terms with and admiting i was preaching a lie.. i'm extremely happy i'm out, although still hitched to it somehow by my past, i guess like many of us on here.. i do have a question for all jws.. how can "god, who cannot lie" a god which is love, justify destroying the world, including all of us that left, and saving only the jws, when for decades one of the main teachings of the jws has proved to be a lie?

a teaching no one wants to discuss anymore, which got covered up by a new light, which most can't even explain.

notsurewheretogo

@fedup you are right...which means the WT is not the channel of God...which mwans there is no channel of God today...which means there is no God....

Enjoy your life!

63

The "Flood" in Noah's day--why wasn't that Armageddon enough?

by Terry in

the great day of god the almighty certainly is a fit description for the destruction of men, women, children, grandmothers, infants and puppy dogs in the days of noah.. why didn't destroying everybody on earth except a remnant of 8 count as armageddon?.

i mean, if you are starting all over by genocide--shouldn't it count for more than bad temper?.

what are we missing?.

notsurewheretogo

@cognisonance, Blondie

I was in for 16 years and just recently came out of the b0rg but I've never seen the society, in my time in, teach that each day in Genesis was a deternimate peroid of time, it was always "a peroid of time not specified in length". Thus as that Awake! in 2003 highlights the WT teaches that the earth came into existence billions of years ago...I'm not saying they didn't teach it but I know as of now they do not...

Whilst it doesn't solve the rather strange sugggestion that humans are only 6,000 years old on this earth I wouldn't expect them to teach that the earth is just thousands of years old...

And I don't mean to cause offence but I would expect someone who posts on multiple websites each week highlighting where the WT goes wrong in their WT study to be up-to-date on what they teach...

63

The "Flood" in Noah's day--why wasn't that Armageddon enough?

by Terry in

the great day of god the almighty certainly is a fit description for the destruction of men, women, children, grandmothers, infants and puppy dogs in the days of noah.. why didn't destroying everybody on earth except a remnant of 8 count as armageddon?.

i mean, if you are starting all over by genocide--shouldn't it count for more than bad temper?.

what are we missing?.

notsurewheretogo

Have I missed something here? The society does not teach (now) that each day in Genesis is 1,000 or 7,000 days old...they say a creative "day" is a peroid of time of indeterminite length thus according to them the earth could be billions of years old with life appearing well before 7,000 years ago...

What they cannot get away from is humans being only 6,000 years old as a family since the believe in the bible which is vastly contrary to archealogical evidence...

5

Need Help Finding Article

by turtleturtle in

i am looking for a questions from readers in the wt.

the question was along the lines of asking why the wt promoted the stake, rather than the cross, even though history shows the romans did use the cross in executions.. the answer from the wt was along the lines of admitting that the romans did use crosses for execution, but in the area where jesus' death took place, it was commonplace to use stakes, since lumber was not readily available.. can anyone find this for me?.

notsurewheretogo

There is this though:

What Is the Bible’s View?

Does Christianity Have a Visible Symbol?

THROUGHOUT human history the religions of the world have featured numerous visible symbols. Stars, moon crescents, fish, dragons, gargoyles—these and many other symbols have appeared in the writings and art of the world’s religious systems.

Is there a visible symbol for Christianity? Do you think of the cross? What about the figure of a fish, which appears on some ancient artifacts associated with Christians? Or is there perhaps some other visible symbol representative of Christianity?

Let us consider first the cross. Many English translations of the Christian Scriptures employ the word “cross” for the instrument upon which Jesus was nailed to die. (Phil. 2:8, Authorized Version) But was it really cross-shaped?

The Imperial Bible-Dictionary points out: “The Greek word for cross, staurós, properly signified a stake, an upright pole, or piece of paling, on which anything might be hung, or which might be used in impaling [fencing in] a piece of ground. . . . Even amongst the Romans the crux (from which our [word] cross is derived) appears to have been originally an upright pole.” It is true that on occasion these terms were used to refer also to cross-shaped objects. In these cases, however, the contexts of accounts employing these words describe crosses. But that is not the basic meaning of either the Greek staurós or the Latin crux.

Furthermore, the Bible also designates the instrument upon which Jesus died by the Greek word xylon. According to a Greek-English lexicon by Liddell and Scott, this word means “wood . . . II. a stick or piece of wood . . . III. later, a tree.” In the Authorized Version this word is rendered as “tree,” as at Acts 5:30, where we read: “The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.”—See also Acts 13:29; Galatians 3:13; 1 Peter 2:24, AV.

But do not writers early in the Common Era claim that Jesus died on a cross? For example, Justin Martyr (114-167 C.E.) described in this way what he believed to be the type of stake upon which Jesus died: “For the one beam is placed upright, from which the highest extremity is raised up into a horn, when the other beam is fitted on to it, and the ends appear on both sides as horns joined on to the one horn.” This indicates that Justin himself believed that Jesus died on a cross.

However, Justin was not inspired by God, as were the Bible writers. He was born more than eighty years after Jesus’ death, and was not an eyewitness of that event. It is believed that in describing the “cross” Justin followed an earlier writing known as the “Letter of Barnabas.” This non-Biblical letter claims that the Bible describes Abraham as having circumcised three hundred and eighteen men of his household. Then it derives special significance from a Greek-letter cipher for 318, namely, IHT. The writer of this apocryphal work claims that IH represents the first two letters of “Jesus” in Greek. The T is viewed as the shape of Jesus’ death stake.

Concerning this passage, M’Clintock and Strong’s Cyclopædia states: “The writer evidently was unacquainted with the Hebrew Scriptures, and has [also] committed the blunder of supposing that Abraham was familiar with the Greek alphabet some centuries before it existed.” A translator into English of this “Letter of Barnabas” points out that it contains “numerous inaccuracies,” “absurd and trifling interpretations of Scripture,” and “many silly vaunts of superior knowledge in which its writer indulges.” Would you depend on such a writer, or persons who followed him, to provide accurate information about the stake on which Jesus died?

The cross did not become popular as a symbol in Christendom until the fourth century C.E., when Roman emperor Constantine adopted the labarum, a flag bearing the symbol [Artwork—Greek character]. However, this represented, not Jesus’ death stake, but the Greek letters khi (X) and hro (P) one atop the other. Many began to view this symbol as depicting the first two letters of the Greek word for Christ (XRistos).

What about the symbol of a fish? Objects dated as far back as the second century C.E. have been found bearing this figure along with the Greek word for fish, ICHTHÝS. This is understood by many as a cipher for the Greek expression Iesous CHristos THeou Yios Soter, meaning “Jesus Christ, Son of God, Savior.” Is the fish a truly Christian symbol?

According to The Interpreter’s Dictionary of the Bible, fish frequently appear in ancient pagan symbolism, often apart from water scenes. “In such cases,” notes this reference work, “it would seem to have symbolic significance, possibly to represent deity, power, fecundity, etc.”

The same publication further notes that certain Jews adopted use of the fish symbol from pagan religious customs, adding: “It is probable that the considerations mentioned [in this regard] account in part for the appearance of the fish in the art of the oldest Christian catacombs. How early the Greek word for ‘fish’ (ichthýs) came to be interpreted as a cipher for ‘Jesus Christ, Son of God, Savior’ . . . we do not know; but once this identification was made, the fish became a standard Christian symbol.”

The Bible, however, sets forth no visible symbol for Christianity. Christians today, therefore, must be on guard not to adopt such a symbol. For example, watchtower-like designs appear on some buildings and Kingdom Halls of Jehovah’s Witnesses. There is nothing wrong with these in themselves. Possibly they may help persons to identify property owned by Jehovah’s Witnesses. However, at no time should anyone look upon such things with reverence, as if they were a visible sign of Christianity. Jesus taught that, rather than through visible symbols, “by this all will know that you are my disciples, if you have love among yourselves.”—John 13: 35.

While visible symbols have always been a feature of non-Biblical religions, they were absent from Christianity at its beginning. As in the first century C.E., so today, true Christians must conform to the Scriptural standard: “We are walking by faith, not by sight.”—2 Cor. 5:7.

5

Need Help Finding Article

by turtleturtle in

i am looking for a questions from readers in the wt.

the question was along the lines of asking why the wt promoted the stake, rather than the cross, even though history shows the romans did use the cross in executions.. the answer from the wt was along the lines of admitting that the romans did use crosses for execution, but in the area where jesus' death took place, it was commonplace to use stakes, since lumber was not readily available.. can anyone find this for me?.

notsurewheretogo

On the Library I can only find one Questions from Readers on it:

Questions From Readers

? Where other Bible translations use “cross” the New World Translation usually uses “stake,” but in some places it uses “tree,” as at Acts 5:30 in the margin. Why is this?—W. M., United States.

In the Bibles of Christendom in general the Greek word that is translated “cross” is the word staurós. Originally this was used to mean simply a stake or a pole, that is, one without a crossbeam. That this is the proper meaning of the word when referring to the instrument that Jesus was hung upon is shown by the fact that the apostles Peter and Paul sometimes referred to it as a tree, namely, in Acts 5:30, Acts 10:39, Acts 13:29, Galatians 3:13 and 1 Peter 2:24. The Greek word here translated “tree” is the word xylon, from which we get the word “xylophone,” an instrument of music made of wooden pieces. However, this Greek word xylon does not refer to a live tree growing in the ground and producing fruits. For a live, growing fruit-bearing tree the Greeks used another word, namely, dendron, from which we get the English word “dendrology,” meaning the science of trees. Dendron is the Greek word used in such verses as Matthew 3:10; 7:17, 18, 19; 12:33; 13:32; 21:8. Also Mark 8:24; 11:8; Luke 3:9; Jude 12; Revelation 7:1, 3; 8:7; 9:4.

So the Greek-speaking people of old did not refer to the torture stake of Jesus as a live tree or dendron, but as a xylon. So this xylon corresponds with a log or a staff. In fact, the word is translated “staff” or “staves” in Matthew 26:47, 55; Mark 14:43, 48; Luke 22:52. (AV) Certainly the xylon that the mob which came to take Jesus under arrest used was not a cross, nor was it a live tree rooted in the ground. Sometimes because of the wood of which a tree is composed, or which is taken from a tree, even a live tree may be called a xylon. In this case the reading matter around the word would indicate whether it is a dead tree or a live one, as for instance at Luke 23:31; Revelation 2:7; 22:2, 14.

As you can see, therefore, the above discussion bears out the fact that the torture stake or tree upon which Jesus was impaled was not a cross, or a log with a crossbeam, as Christendom teaches, but was a straight, erect pole or log or stick and did not correspond with the phallic symbol of the cross.

37

A Couple of thoughts on July WT

by Phizzy in

i actually got a bucket close by and read some of the study ed.

july 13 w.t my first reaction was amazement at how very muddled the whole thing was, i think if i had all those months to write articles since the noo lite was presented at the agm i could make a much better job of arguing the new ideas, and our very own sd7 could do even better !.

for instance, it is claimed in the chart, and the 2nd article i think, that the harvest began in 1914, by whom ?.

notsurewheretogo

Because in HQ you are not allowed to ask questions...you just follow...I liked some of your points...the IF point is very good...

24

0.99999999999 = 1

by nicolaou in

.

notsurewheretogo

A proof that has been put forward for 1 = 0.999, as follows:

x = 0.999...

10x = 9.999...

10x - x = 9.999... - 0.999...

9x = 9

x = 1

In the 4th line of the proof we see that from the RHS: 9.999...-0.999... = 9. This is not the case. While it is true that the number of 9s after the decimal point is infinite, it is neither sufficient or trivial to assume this step. For example:

Take an infinitely long integer consisting exclusively of 9s, call this number A. Take second infinitely long integer also consisting exclusively of 9s and call this number B.

A - B = 0

If and only if the number of digits in A and B are the same. Since x has been multiplied by 10, its infinite number of 9s after the decimal point is one less than in x by definition. (sorry to jump in here...but how is one set of INFINITE 9's smaller than another set of INFINITE 9's...by definition, they are the same) It is not sufficient either to say that there are an infinite number of 9s after the decimal place therefore it does not matter, irrespective of whether the repetition is finite or not, the number of digits does need to be the same, and as Mathematicians know, not all infinities are the same. (I laughed. What a joke. Go read some Cantor theorems. infinity +1 is ALWAYS equal to infinity). Therefore the 4th line should say:

That is only true for a finite series.

21

Quick and easy 607 question

by breakfast of champions in

really, this should be easy if you have the cd rom (i don't).. somewhere in the societies publications, they try to denigrate the reliability of an ancient tablet by citing a source which shows big gaps in the translation (lots of [] and .

's) evidently because this tablet was so beat up and broken, half the words are missing, thus secular historical records are worthless, trust the bible.. if i remember this correctly, the actual source of the quote goes on to say something to the effect of 'fortunately the obverse side of the tablet contains all the information in tact' - a fact the wt conveniently leaves out.. i had thought this quote was either from insight or the all scripture book, but i can't find it in either.

anyone know what publication this is from?

notsurewheretogo

This is a cracking topic..bookmarked with the rest of good 607 threads!

32

More failed JW chronology

by Jeffro in

ive just been reviewing my timeline of the divided jewish monarchy and the neo-babylonian period.

i decided to check for correlations of egyptian and assyrian rulers mentioned in the bible that i had not previously considered at all (much less tried to make fit a particular year).

i was happy (though unsurprised) that no adjustments were required.. pharaoh tirhakah (taharqa) (2ki 19:8, 9; isa 37:8, 9) insight (volume 2, page 1109) claims the years assigned to him by historians must be wrong.

notsurewheretogo

Round 2 please!

26

Challenge to you prophets - can you meet it?

by punkofnice in

i challenge anyone that can accurately predict events by reading the bible or your prophetic book of choice, to give me a specific date when something will happen so i can watch for it!.

give us the date here (not a pm) and tell us what will happen.. let there be no excuses!

no get out clauses of ''it doesn't work that way'' or similar.

notsurewheretogo

I predict 8 older men (well maybe 7 and one youngish man) living in luxury in Brooklyn will NOT go out on service midweek...instead they will gather around a table (with cosy luxury seats remember!) and talk giberish.

This will occur every week...