It amazeses me just how many people have stopped going to meetings or get disfellowshiped yet still believe it is the truth and live under a burden of guilt for many years.
Should we not be targeting these ones as they one day in a low emotional state will probably drift back to their "mother org"?
I know of many people who left the truth even for more than 20 years and then went back.
They in all that time never looked at or came across any information to help them.
One of my friends went out of the truth over 10 years ago( he was not baptised), he then started studying about 2 years ago , got baptised a then within a year left again because he realised it was wrong.Yet in all that time before he never came across any info to show it wasn't the truth and now has to go through all the hassle of leaving after being baptised.
So is there a way to target those who have left or been disfellowshipped?
Maybe a web site focusing on them?
It could be true that there are more ex'Jw's who believe it is the truth than those who don't.
Posts by sleepy
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16Those who get df'd or drift away but don't know.
by sleepy init amazeses me just how many people have stopped going to meetings or get disfellowshiped yet still believe it is the truth and live under a burden of guilt for many years.. should we not be targeting these ones as they one day in a low emotional state will probably drift back to their "mother org"?.
i know of many people who left the truth even for more than 20 years and then went back.. they in all that time never looked at or came across any information to help them.. one of my friends went out of the truth over 10 years ago( he was not baptised), he then started studying about 2 years ago , got baptised a then within a year left again because he realised it was wrong.yet in all that time before he never came across any info to show it wasn't the truth and now has to go through all the hassle of leaving after being baptised.. so is there a way to target those who have left or been disfellowshipped?.
maybe a web site focusing on them?.
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sleepy
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43
What is the crappiest job you have ever had?
by gilwarrior infor me it was when i was living in mexico and i got a job as a waiter out of sheer boardom.
the pay was lousy, the work was hard, the boss was an asshole, and at the end of the week i was told that i was not good enough to be a waiter and i was fired.
thank god!.
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sleepy
That most amazing career choice pioneering.
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13
Childhood memories of the "Truth"
by sleepy incan you remmember any of the things you got up to or happened to you when you were a child growing up in the "truth"?.
i remmeber once in a meeting throwing up all over an elderly sister.. also i remmeber the time when we were playing out side and there was this kid most of us didn't like, and a wall that had a very rought surface to it.boy and wall meet , blood goes every ware, parents run outside and panic.. the rest of us laught.. how about the rules you had to follow?.
me and my brother were banned from drawing while the meeting was on.. that probably because we used to draw over all the walls.. also i remmember my dad smaking us before we went to the meeting , just incase we did something wrong.. yes it was different being a watchtower kid.
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sleepy
Can you remmember any of the things you got up to or happened to you when you were a child growing up in the "truth"?
I remmeber once in a meeting throwing up all over an elderly sister.
Also i remmeber the time when we were playing out side and there was this kid most of us didn't like, and a wall that had a very rought surface to it.Boy and wall meet , blood goes every ware, parents run outside and panic.
The rest of us laught.How about the rules you had to follow?
Me and my brother were banned from drawing while the meeting was on.
That probably because we used to draw over all the walls.
Also I remmember my dad smaking us BEFORE we went to the meeting , just incase we did something wrong.
Yes it was different being a watchtower kid. -
19
Do they owe us anything?
by sleepy inhow do you feel?
does the society owe us for misleading us or do we just blame ourselves?.
imagine we were sold a pension plan that guaranteed us a certain return.
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sleepy
How do you feel? Does the society owe us for misleading us or do we just blame ourselves?
Imagine we were sold a pension plan that guaranteed us a certain return.
They show us evidence of its performance in nice looking graphs an charts in small books we can keep and study. We are even encouraged to get others into this plan as it is so certain. Only a fool would turn down this opportunity.
After many years of paying in to or pension fund, we start to question its performance in the yearly figures we cant see the growth they promised. They tell us don't be so hasty the real returns come at the end , just trust us and be patient.
One day we notice a book in the library , you recognise it as one that the pension firm quoted from in there little book that proved their investments were trust worthy.
You look to see the information quoted and are startled!
The quote they have has been taken out of context. In fact it reads opposite to what they claimed.
This gets you worried."Can I trust this pension fund ,do I keep putting money in?"
You decide to tell one of your friends , who is also paying money into this fund ,what you have discovered. When you explain what you have found he is shocked also, "How can you doubt what we have been told, don't you know these people are completely trust worthy?"
Your friend is not interests in explanations, he has invested a lot of money, if the scheme does not perform as promised he will lose every thing.
In fact in order not to her about what you have found out this friend now ignores you.
You are gutted and upset. You have found out that this pension is not all it was cracked up to be , you have invested all your spare money and more into it after being assured of it certainty, and now your friends won't talk to you as you have doubts.
You decide to write to the company.
You spend many hours thinking of an appropriate letter explaining you concerns and send it off. Days go by as you awaited your reply.
There it is on the floor , the letter you have been waiting for.
Perhaps you will see an apology , or an explanation of what has happened.
When you read it your joy turns to despair. First they rebuke you for doubting them, and tell you you should put their trust in them , after all they have shown you proof that this pension will give you a massive return. Then comes the bad news.
They have withdrawn you from the pension scheme. You are no longer to talk to anyone in the pension scheme and they have been told not to talk to you. All you savings have been confiscated and will only be returned if you recant of you doubts an continue paying money in.
Well enough is enough.
You have wasted 1000's pounds of money you could not afford. You gave up holidays and other luxuries in order to get the most from you money.
You have little time left before you retire and no chance of saving much money again.
All your friends have abandoned you even you family is cold.
One last resort.
"I'll take them to court"
So off you go to a solicitor.
So "Mr ****** you believed it when they told you , you were guaranteed this vast return on you investment?"
"Well yes, they showed me evidence , lots of figures even proof of how it has performed in the past"
"Didn't you know that these returns cart be guaranteed?"
"Yes but they promised"
"Oh come on, you aren't that stupid?"
"Well..er, they are hiding the truth, they know they are misleading people"
"Look you had the choice you should have checked this company out before investing, If we sued the banks and pension companies every time there schemes failed to perform up to expectation they would be bankrupt"
"But they mislead me , I want my money back"
"Look you signed a form that says they have the right to use your money as they see fit.”
“But I was mislead I‘ve lost my life everything”
“Too bad”Is this the way it has to be for us?
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Tony handcock.
by sleepy intony handcock.. (toe-knee-hand-cock).
does this name have highest number of body parts possible in it,or can you do better?.
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sleepy
Tony handcock.
(Toe-knee-hand-cock)Does this name have highest number of body parts possible in it,or can you do better?
(Do I really have nothing better to do?)
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118
Average age of apostates survey.
by sleepy ini thought it might be a good idea to find out at what age or after how long we descided to leave the watchtower.. prehaps we my find a patern in it which we could use .. i think what we need to know are ,.
1.age you left the watchtower.
(or age you found out it was wrong).
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sleepy
I've just done a basic analysis of the replys so far, to work out the ratio of converts to people raised as witness ( which includs those whos family converted when still a child)
The figures I got were,
converted :16
raised :71
(There were some replys that didn't mention whether converted or not)This is around 7/9 raised in the truth.
If these figure are truly representative of witnesses as a hole doesn't this show that the preaching work is only effective in the sense that those converted will bring their families up as witness , who will then stay witness for the rest of there lives just as muslims or catholics do without questioning their religion.
This means that most witnesses were raised as such.
Most people called on reject the teachings of Jehovahs witness. Out of its claimed 6,000,000 memmber ship I wonder how many are converted?
Does this also show that much of the time spent in going from door to door is a complete waste? -
40
Why God cannot have existed forever.
by sleepy inwhy god cannot have existed forever.. this is something a friend of mine brought up a number of years ago.at the time i just thought that to understand how a god existed forever was just beyond our little brains.. well now after reading a lot more physics books i think its evidence a god couldn't have existed forever and therefore would had a begining (if there was a god).. basically if god had lived from infinity in the past we wouldn't have been created yet as there would always be forever untill we were created.. do you get that?.
at any point in time we could take, if time went back forever then you could never get to that point in time.
you would always have infinity infront of you.. sorry if this doesn't make much sense as it is not easy to describe.
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sleepy
DM,
Iused to believe that too."I asked an elder about this and he said that God choses to exercise His powers of foreknowledge selectively, otherwise it would counteract our standing as creatures of freewill."
But, If god used his powers of forknowledge to know when he should use his powers of forknowledge he must know what is going to happen.
If he knows all the possiblities of what could happen and some of these are random(Free will)then God doesn't know everything as he doesn't know which will happen. -
40
Why God cannot have existed forever.
by sleepy inwhy god cannot have existed forever.. this is something a friend of mine brought up a number of years ago.at the time i just thought that to understand how a god existed forever was just beyond our little brains.. well now after reading a lot more physics books i think its evidence a god couldn't have existed forever and therefore would had a begining (if there was a god).. basically if god had lived from infinity in the past we wouldn't have been created yet as there would always be forever untill we were created.. do you get that?.
at any point in time we could take, if time went back forever then you could never get to that point in time.
you would always have infinity infront of you.. sorry if this doesn't make much sense as it is not easy to describe.
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sleepy
TO THOSE WHO THINK A GOD COULD DO ANYTHING POSSIBLE.
REMEMBER THERE IS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN EVERYTHING CONCEIVABLE AND EVERYTHING POSSIBLE.
JUST BECAUSE WE CAN CONCEIVE OF AN IDEA OR THING DOES NOT MAKE THAT THING A REALITY.
FOR INSTANCE COULD GOD MAKE A ROCK SO HEAVY HE COULDN'T LIFT IT?
WELL SUCH A THING IS CONCEIVABLE IN THE SENSE THAT WE CAN CONCEIVE OF THE IDEA BUT IS NOT POSSIBLE IN THE FACT THAT THE ACTUALITY DOES NOT EXIST.(As if the rock got heavier and heavier it would no longer exist as a rock)COULD GOD MAKE A SQUARE A CIRCLE.
WELL I CAN ASK THE QUESTION BUT EITHER SOMETHING IS A SQUARE OR IT IS A CIRCLE.
SOME OF THE CONCEPTS YOU WOULD NEED TO APPLY TO A GOD AS DESCRIBED IN THE BIBLE MAY BE JUST IDEAS IN OUR HEAD BUT LIKE THESE UNABLE TO FIND AN EXPRESSION IN REALITY.(How the hell did this all end up in capitals?)
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Why God cannot have existed forever.
by sleepy inwhy god cannot have existed forever.. this is something a friend of mine brought up a number of years ago.at the time i just thought that to understand how a god existed forever was just beyond our little brains.. well now after reading a lot more physics books i think its evidence a god couldn't have existed forever and therefore would had a begining (if there was a god).. basically if god had lived from infinity in the past we wouldn't have been created yet as there would always be forever untill we were created.. do you get that?.
at any point in time we could take, if time went back forever then you could never get to that point in time.
you would always have infinity infront of you.. sorry if this doesn't make much sense as it is not easy to describe.
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sleepy
Lets try another thought experiment.
How could a God know whether he knows everything?
If a God knows that he knows everything how does he know that he knows that he knows everything?
If a God knows that he knows that he knows everything, how does he know that he knows , that he knows.....
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40
Why God cannot have existed forever.
by sleepy inwhy god cannot have existed forever.. this is something a friend of mine brought up a number of years ago.at the time i just thought that to understand how a god existed forever was just beyond our little brains.. well now after reading a lot more physics books i think its evidence a god couldn't have existed forever and therefore would had a begining (if there was a god).. basically if god had lived from infinity in the past we wouldn't have been created yet as there would always be forever untill we were created.. do you get that?.
at any point in time we could take, if time went back forever then you could never get to that point in time.
you would always have infinity infront of you.. sorry if this doesn't make much sense as it is not easy to describe.
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sleepy
A christian I think you missed the point
"At any point in time we could take, >IF< time went back forever ..."
Notice the "IF"
"Physics books tell us that time does not go "back forever" from "any point in time."
Which was the point I was making.