Posts by Saename

17

Revelation 5:9,10 and the 144,000

by Darkknight757 in

i hesitate to ask this question.

during some recent research on youtube i came across a few videos explaining how watchtower manipulated revelation 5:10. revelation 5:10 "you have made them to be a kingdom and priests to serve our god,and they will reign on the earth.”" -niv.

the nwt13 renders this verse: 10 and you made them to be a kingdom+ and priests to our god,+ and they are to rule as kings+ over the earth.”.

Saename

"Instead of "on the earth", Watchtower renders the verse "over the earth" and makes the connection of these ones to the 144,000."

The Greek word this verse uses is ἐπί ("epi"). The problem with this word is that it has multiple meanings. It can mean different propositions in English:

upon
unto
against
in
at
on
about
over
before
by

Here are some examples of verses in different translations:

Matthew 7.25 uses "epi" to mean "upon" in KJV and INT.
Matthew 10.18 uses "epi" to mean "before" in NAS, KJV, and INT.
Matthew 10.21 uses "epi" to mean "against" in NAS, KJV, and INT.
Matthew 18.13 uses "epi" to mean "over" in NAS and INT, whereas KJV renders "epi" as "of."

In short, the rendering of "epi" as "over" in Rev. 5.10 is neither wrong nor right. It's just another example of the fact that the original New Testament cannot be reconstructed. There is not a single possibility to know what the authors meant when they penned their words. Each manuscript we have is different from each other, and some of the Greek words can mean different things, each of which interpretations can be considered agreeable depending on how you read the verses. This problem is especially evident when you attempt to interpret the prophecies.

33

Jesus Knows the Day & Hour Now?

by KillerJones in

i was skimming the july 2016 wt study article and came across a paragraph indicating that, despite scriptural evidence, the governing body indeed feels that god's son now knows the exact day and hour of armageddon.

is this 'new light'?

from the second study article, page 14, pgh 4:.

Saename

I thought the Governing Body doesn't deal in hypothetical questions and answers? I mean, when Geoffrey Jackson was asked in the ARC whether Jesus would point to Deut. 22:23–27 (I hope this was the right scripture) to show that there are exceptions to the two-witness rule, he denied to answer, saying that it was a hypothetical question, and that he can't know without talking to Jesus first. Now this paragraph clearly speaks about a hypothetical scenario. The problem is that the Witnesses will now say that this is the new light. Shame on you, Governing Body.

6

New identity

by thereishope in

i was able to sign out thanks.

not that knowledgeable about computers can you tell?

i have used a username that i'm nervous my husband might recognize if he were to find this site.

Saename

Don't forget to disactivate this mode after using the browser. That would be a problem for you and your husband―unless, of course, this is not your husband's field.

6

New identity

by thereishope in

i was able to sign out thanks.

not that knowledgeable about computers can you tell?

i have used a username that i'm nervous my husband might recognize if he were to find this site.

Saename

Yes, you can create a new account. Just sign out and go for it. The old stuff will remain on the site, but, as you say, it will fade away. Your husband will probably not find it, even if he were to find the site itself.

Also, I presume you are a Jehovah's Witness who has recently stopped believing in the organisation, but you fear of telling this to your husband who is still an active Jehovah's Witness? If so, I realize this is a hard situation for you. I hope things will get better so that you wouldn't have to be "paranoid" about it.

3

why can't I sign out?

by thereishope in

thanks for any help in signing out..

Saename

This forum is like another Jehovah's Witness organisation. We will not let you go. It's a no-no. So, next time you even think of leaving this site, you better clear cache and cookies and then log out.

26

Governing Body Anthony Morris gives talk at convention. Child refuses blood dies

by Watchtower-Free in

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yxw_wxyviu .

Saename

This would never happen in the UK. Judges overrule parents wishes on blood without hesitation.

If I'm not mistaken, it was not the parents who refused but the child himself. I think it was solely him who refused the blood transfusion. It is true, however, that it would be the parents who indoctrinated the boy.

Did anyone notice that Tony Harris called the doctors' attempts to persuade the boy to take the transfusion "persecution"? This is ridiculous. How that can be considered even close to "persecution" I have no idea. Last time I checked, "persecution" means to "treat someone cruelly or unfairly especially because of race or religious or political beliefs," or to "constantly annoy or bother someone." This is the definitions that Merriam-Webster Dictionary gives. I don't see how medical advice can be called a cruel or unfair treatment of a person, or an attempt to annoy or bother a person.

26

Are gays really condemned in the Bible?

by jws in

so i was having this argument with a friend about the westboro baptist idiots.

my point is that while they are horrible people, they are pretty much right in that the bible is against gays because it has verses in both the old and the new testament.

which is one of many reasons to reject the bible as merely man-made rules from ancient middle-easterners.. and she argued that there are problems in translation, etc.

Saename

I believe you are right in your conclusion. I won't say that the Bible is against homosexuality as I don't believe that the Bible is inspired of God. As an atheist who studies the New Testament, I believe that the Bible is a collection of books that are different from each other and that were written by authors different from each other.

Therefore, what I will say is that apostle Paul, when writing the letter to Romans, was against homosexuality. As I study the New Testament, I have to say there is some debate about 1 Cor. 6.9–10. The Greek words used are μαλακοὶ and ἀρσενοκοῖται. People argue different things when it comes to the translations of those words. malakai (the first word), seems to mean "effeminate." The second word, arsenokoites, gets tricky... Boswell argues that it means "male prostitutes," Balley argues that it means "males who practise homosexuality," and Scroggs argues that it means "pederasty." Will the case be settled? Hmm... probably not.

Now, I won't discuss 1 Timothy as it was probably not written by Paul at all but by one of his followers. Instead, I will go on to comment on Romans 1.26–27.

When I personally read this passage, I see a clear case of Paul against homosexuality. It's true that Paul says that both women and men "exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature" (ESV), and some individuals (such as Joe Dallas) argue that this verse condemns heterosexuals who practise homosexuality, and thus they act against nature. However, at the same time, you can argue that Paul is calling any homosexual practice as being "contrary to nature." Too bad we can't ask the guy, eh? To me, it seems that Paul condemns homosexuality in general, but it's my personal opinion, with which there are scholars who agree. And then there are also scholars who disagree.

I guess that's why scholars don't even talk anymore about reconstructing the original New Testament...

28

We live a simple life

by hoser in

this is a video on jw broadcasting to quit your full time career, sell your house and belongings and start a window washing career.

i agree with some of what is presented but not all.

it is good to live within your means as presented in this video.

Saename

Ame SF, would you be able to tell which video that was?

Thanks in advance.

28

We live a simple life

by hoser in

this is a video on jw broadcasting to quit your full time career, sell your house and belongings and start a window washing career.

i agree with some of what is presented but not all.

it is good to live within your means as presented in this video.

Saename

Gulf Coaster, I'm glad you did okay despite your past experiences with JWs.

University may be more accepted by the cult these days, but I guess it depends on age and culture. I'm sure you would experience different reactions even today, depending on whether the JW is young or old, and whether s/he lives in a first-world country, a second-world country, or a third-world country (if I may use this particular classification.) After all, the poorer the country is, the more religiously committed the citizens are. It seems to be one of the reasons the Governing Body continues to discourage pursuing higher education and material possessions.

28

We live a simple life

by hoser in

this is a video on jw broadcasting to quit your full time career, sell your house and belongings and start a window washing career.

i agree with some of what is presented but not all.

it is good to live within your means as presented in this video.

Saename

Not surprising at all.

I remember when a few months ago, I told one of the "sisters" at one Kingdom Hall that I'll be going to university once I finish high school (just finished it and going to university after summer.) Her reaction? She said something to the effect of, "What's wrong with people today? They're all going to those universities!"

I was really surprised at the time that she said it to my face. It was outrageous. But well, what can you do? I just ignored it and lived on.

I'm so happy that, about a week ago, I started watching the ARC and how it proved that JWs do not actually take the child abuse issue seriously. It convinced me that I was half-brainwashed. It convinced me that not all "apostates" are actually apostates, which is why I joined this forum just a few days ago. (I was half-brainwashed because I could still think independently, despite believing in JW dogma. By the way, if you're reading this, Anders Andersen, thank you for "preaching" about the ARC on one of the educational websites that I joined a few months ago. Without that, I would not have learned about the JW policies.)

I'm also happy that I started reading what leading scholars like Bart Ehrman have to say about the New Testament... Now, I'm in the process of leaving the JW cult, and religion in general. I was, though people at the Kingdom Hall still believe I am, an unbaptized publisher. Because I was never baptized, nobody ever (except for that one "sister") encouraged me not to go to university. Undoubtedly, once I got baptized, they would start jumping all over me, saying how wicked universities are. (Of course, all those Watchtowers we have studied at the Kingdom Hall made me feel guilty about the idea of going to university.)

Just as the OP, I also agree with one thing from the video, though I never saw it: living within your means. It's incredibly important. But selling your possessions and leaving your job? Come on...!

By the way, it was mentioned that the video was from JW Broadcasting. Was it this month's broadcast? Or was it some other video? I'd like to see it and have a laugh about it. (I hope Stephen Lett is not in the video. The guy creeps me out. I mean, seriously, no human talks like that!)