Posts by startingover

21

Talked to a friend of mine...

by ithinkisee in

over the last week i have been telling a longtime friend of mine from my hometown about what i found.

we were best friends all growing up and he had some real bad physical abuse probs in his house and so when he graduated he left the truth and has just recently started coming back.

he?s been studying off and on.

startingover

I suggest you read this book.

http://www.geocities.com/captives_of_a_concept/

1

Wanderlustguy and his addiction to JWD - admitting he has a problem

by wanderlustguy in

jw
friends

you...you...people.

i blame all of you, every stinkin one of ya.

i just looked up and realized i lost 3 hours of my day to this place.

What I remember from 1975

by Big Dog in

since i am sort of late to the party this has probably been beaten to death and if it has just kick this thread to the curb.

i was 11 years old in 1975 and i remember being scared silly the whole year.

i mean there was so much hype about it and the tension in the air was so thick it was unreal.

I was 21 in 1975. It's only been a couple of years since I realized I was a closet athiest as long as I can remember. It's taken this long to realize it and freely admit it, mainly because of my upbringing and continued association with the org. Sitting through the meetings growing up were never something I wanted to do, but I had to. I never studied for the meetings, I was just a body in a seat thinking about all the other stuff I wished I could be doing.

But never underestimate the power of the subliminal. I had interest in being an architect. When I found out how long the schooling took, which would have been past 1975, I never pursued it. Even though all my "worldly" friends were making plans for college, I just found myself affected by the things I heard at the meetings, even though I'm sure I wasn't listening all the much. I was sure the end was coming and I was going to die at Armageddon anyway so why waste time on school. Why not just party and have a good time.

Circumstances allowed me to make a big move across the country by myself in mid 1975. Out of my parents house and surrounded by new bunch of fun kids (even though they were dubs) caused me to completely forget the fears I had. It came and went without me even thinking any more about it. I often wonder if I had not made the move where I would be, how the date coming and going would have affected me. I will never know. But I do know that I never got those ideas from any study I did. The only place it could have come from was sitting through the meetings.

41

Two great quotes!

by mkr32208 in

jw
friends

i contend that we are both atheists, i just believe in one less god than you do.

when you understand why you dismiss all other possible gods, then you will know why i dismiss yours.

- stephen f. roberts.

startingover

A couple of my favorites:

Money doesn't buy happiness, but it buys more than poverty.

It's easier to ask for forgiveness than permission.

55

Declining Meeting Attendance-CO visit

by TheListener in

so we have our circuit overseer this week.

we're getting the crap kicked out of us (figuratively) for our meeting attendance.

we have attendance in the 70% range for some of our meetings.

startingover

4 days, are you kidding?

Look what I had to live through. Take a look at this site:

http://www.geocities.com/jrista/master.htm

Look at the 1969 international assembly program, and look at the starting and ending times for all 8 freekin' days.

49

Even stranger than drunken Noah - why did angels want sex with women?

by eyeslice in

this is a sort of parallel thread to the drunken noah thread.

the genesis account of angels 'materialising' and having sex with women always worried me as a witness.

in all animals, man included, the sex drive is hormonal.

startingover

u/d

I'm sure you have noticed that I didn't write it, Runningman did.

Sex drive 100% hormonal? Says who?

I don't know about 100%, but it sure seems when the chemicals are missing so is the sex drive.

God can't give us something He doesn't have? Says who? Humans have many things "God" doesn't- ie. limititations, physicial bodies,sex etc.

God doesn't have limitations? Bible sure seems to indicate he does. Couldn't find Adam in the garden. Seems like he had a physical body as well if he was walking in the garden.

Angels don't "marry", where does it say they don't have a spiritual equivelant of sex?

I guess anything is possible to imagine. Especailly if you can accept the concept of angels in the first place.

There couldn't have been that many materialized angels- there weren't that many women (or people) for that matter, on the Earth.

Are you referring to the numbers of angel mentioned? I didn't think anything was said about how many materialized.

While debunking the account as pure fiction.... just as with ALL FABLES, do we miss the "moral" of the story or is this BS too?

There are morals in lots of writings. I'm a little unclear, do you take the bible writings literally or do you debunk them as pure fiction?

If it's all BS why do you waste your valuable brain power and time even discussing it. Although some things are highly questionable and definitely open to debate and scrutiny, there is still VALUABLE lessons here. I've seen some great legitimate exercises in logic and paradigm shift here... this isn't one of them.

After accepting it as fact my whole life, examining the bible stories critically is something that I enjoy. And I know I'm not alone. I disagree with your last statement above, I think it is legitimate.

25

FreedomFrog needs some support, please. Her parrot died. :-( ::::

by FreedomFrog in

jw
friends

this is dave, stealing one of gina's topics.. please send your positive thoughts to gina, one of her birds died today.

she has several birds, a yellow-nape amazon (big parrot), an african gray (snuggle bird), a starling (saved as a fledgling), two cockatiels (think largish yellow parakeets), and two doves.

cheeko was a green-cheek amazon, a smallish parrot.

startingover

((((((((((((((Gina))))))))))))) Didn't know you were a bird lover. So sorry for your loss. I can literally feel your pain. I have 5 parrots and I dread the day when something like that happens to one of them. My heart will break. I've got tears in my eyes even contemplating it.

I just hope it's not PDD. That can be very ugly. For those that don't know it's the AIDS for birds. Keep us posted.

49

Even stranger than drunken Noah - why did angels want sex with women?

by eyeslice in

this is a sort of parallel thread to the drunken noah thread.

the genesis account of angels 'materialising' and having sex with women always worried me as a witness.

in all animals, man included, the sex drive is hormonal.

startingover

Jez,

You should see how big my binder is, as well as word docs. The only problem I have is finding stuff. I've looked for this essay before and couldn't find it, glad I did this time around. It's one of my favorites.

49

Even stranger than drunken Noah - why did angels want sex with women?

by eyeslice in

this is a sort of parallel thread to the drunken noah thread.

the genesis account of angels 'materialising' and having sex with women always worried me as a witness.

in all animals, man included, the sex drive is hormonal.

startingover

Check out this essay. I wish I could give credit to the writer but I can't.

The initial act that started the chain of events regarding the flood, is described by the following bible verses:

?Now it came about that when men started to grow in numbers on the surface of the ground and daughters were born to them, the sons of the true God began to notice the daughters of men, that they were good looking; and they went taking wives for themselves, namely all whom they chose.? - Genesis 6:1,2 (NWT)

Within the next three verses, things deteriorated so much that the only reasonable act for a loving God would be to murder all life. It seems a little odd to me that the angels who started all of this escaped back to heaven, but the humans, who were only secondary to the story, and the animals, who didn?t know what the hell was going on, were executed.

The key point here, is that the event that kicked off the flood was the desire of angels to mate with humans.

In other words, the angels got horny. Now, this has some interesting implications. From this story, and a few other Bible references, we can build an interesting picture of the nature of heaven.

The sex drive in humans and animals is caused by chemicals that are produced in the body. In fact, a person?s sex drive can be eliminated or changed through surgery and hormone therapy. The point of the matter is that, without these chemicals, there is no sex drive.

At this point, we must pause a moment to consider the nature of angels. According to the Bible, angels are direct creations of God. They do not reproduce. As well, they do not have the inherited original sin of Adam and Eve to taint them. They are perfect. This does not mean that they are incapable of sin. It merely means that they are incapable of accidental sin. If an angel sins, it is because he meant it. It also means that if an angel feels sexual desire, it must have been placed there by his creator.

In order for an angel to become inflamed with lust for a human woman, it would be necessary for the angel to have a sex drive of some sort. If they were completely neuter in every way, they would find human women about as attractive as we find rocks. For this story to function, God must have created angels with sex drives.

Conclusion # 1: Angels are created with a sex drive.

Now that we have established this unusual fact, let?s continue. Notice that the Bible says that the angels found human women attractive, and they took on the bodies of men. Also, notice that it does not say that any of them found human men attractive, and none of them took on the bodies of women. This leads us inescapably to our next conclusion.

Conclusion # 2: All angels are men.

Some of you may be tempted to jump ahead of me, but let?s go slow, and develop this carefully. Our next area of inquiry is regarding the possibility of angelic reproduction.

Jesus gives us some insight into the nature of angelic interrelationships:

?For in the resurrection, neither do men marry, nor are women given in marriage, but are as the angels in heaven.? - Matthew

In addition to this direct statement, we note that there is no reference anywhere in the Bible to female angels, angelic marriage, or angelic reproduction of any sort. This leads us to our next conclusion:

Conclusion # 3: Angels have no natural outlet for their sexual urges.

Finally, I must add some information regarding the quantities of angels.

The book of Daniel makes reference to ?ten thousand times ten thousand? standing before God. A quick multiplication shows that there are one hundred million angels present in this scene, and there may be others as well.

Also, angels have been in existence for a long time. The Bible says that God rested after creating Adam and Eve, so any angels that exist must have been created before them; therefore, angels are ancient.

Conclusion # 4: There are lots and lots of angels and they have a lot of time

on their hands

Now, for the slower ones among us, who have not yet figured out what I am getting at, let?s put all four conclusions together, and finish this off:

1. Angels are created with a sex drive

2. All angels are men

3. Angels have no natural outlet for their sexual urges

4. There are lots and lots of angels, with lots and lots of time

With this logic in mind, we can deduce that heaven must be like a huge prison shower room. I suppose that there are some people who have always had this concept of heaven, or at least hoped for it, but you will have to admit that this is not the mainstream viewpoint. If it were, the Cistine Chapel would be restricted to adults only.

I think it?s safe to say that this exercise illustrates just how ridiculous is the story of the flood. These conclusions, although absurd, are the natural outgrowth of the story, itself. In order for the events of the flood to get off the ground, this must be true.

So, choose for yourself: either heaven is a massive bath house, or the story of the flood is just another yarn.