Phil, I think the problem here is that not all JWs are on the same page. The Society does not argue over the age of the earth, accepting the scientific "billions of years". So they do believe that dinosaurs walked the earth before humans did.
Apognophos
JoinedPosts by Apognophos
-
50
My friends don't believe dinosaurs existed ....
by wannabefree ini just found this out last night.
(preface: this is a husband and wife that i have come to be friends with after leaving the borg, they are christians).
we were sitting around visiting last night and having a good time when my friend starts in on illegal immigration and politics and starts throwing out his hate speech which eventually turns to homosexuals.
-
-
-
112
Scientists Should Not Dismiss Genesis So Quickly
by Chris Tann innasa discovery proves the bible scientifically accurate.
the debate.
for decades there has been a long standing debate between science and religion as to the validity of the biblical genesis account of creation.
-
-
Apognophos
Sorry, but the Bible consistently describes the sky as a vaulted ceiling that holds the waters back: http://contradictionsinthebible.com/genesis-1-waters-above-firmament/. This was exactly the kind of conclusion that we would expect an ancient thinker to arrive at.
The ancient failure to realize that light came from the Sun also makes sense, since they did not understand how light rays disperse in atmosphere. Since they observed that daylight could be present without a direct line of sight to the sun (before dawn, or on a cloudy day), they thought day and night could exist without the sun and moon. Thus Genesis tells us that the two "luminaries" were simply for "shining" like torches, and for marking the change from light to darkness, but not that the sun was the cause of daylight (they also thought the moon emitted light, instead of reflecting the sun's light).
The serpent was indeed later identified as Satan, but only by Christians, not Jews. Religions are entities which evolve over time. Just as Christianity was initially a form of Judaism before it deviated under Paul's teachings, so Christianity has continued to evolve. For instance the New Testament has little to no inkling of several later Christian doctrines like the Trinity and the Immaculate Conception. We can even see the story of the life of Jesus evolving when we read the Gospels from oldest to newest.
Widespread stories like that of the Flood are just as easily explained as "people everywhere have experienced floods". There is simply no special knowledge to be inherited from our ancestors. All the records we have of their beliefs are scientifically and morally primitive, and that includes the Bible. We can see a steady increase in knowledge as we look at each successive civilization throughout history. Jews did not have any special knowledge, for instance, that the earth was round despite claims that their scriptures say such a thing, nor did they grasp the true nature of the sun and moon.
Everything that we reliably know and upon which we have based our civilization was learned by observation and experimentation -- science -- not received through divine revelation. God apparently did not see fit to leave even one useful piece of scientific information in his book, such as how to cure diseases, leaving people to suffer from polio, for instance, until the 20th century when the vaccine was invented.
It will always be possible to represent Bible verses as being scientifically sound if one is willing to layer enough additional explanations on top of the actual texts. It all hinges on how hard one is trying to believe that ancient sheepherders actually knew more about our world than we do today, as scientists do things like study the cosmic microwave background for evidence of multiple universes.
Do yourself a favor and read what scholars have written about the Bible -- not these unqualified apologists' web sites. Like science, Bible scholarship has advanced a lot since the 1800s, though fundamentalists don't know that.
-
9
Anyone know of df'ing for taking a br. to Court (esp. if Cdn)?
by berrygerry inmost jw's have been told that taking a fellow jw to court is wrong.. the shepherd book uses wts speak: "if an individual ignores god's word on this matter, it may affect his congregation privileges.
" (italics theirs.).
the following are from an interesting case in canada ( link ):.
-
-
Apognophos
My thoughts on this are that disfellowshipping is a lot stronger punishment than removing some privileges, as the Shepherd book alludes to. Also, this legal language seems to be referring to a situation where someone involved in a case is trying to obstruct justice. So a brother who is punished for taking his brother to court would not fall under this heading unless the defendant was an elder who then removed the plaintiff's privileges or got him DFed.
-
11
Satan, perfection, new world, and being s***ted on again
by Tenacious inaccording to the bible man was created a little lower in abilities to that of angels.
this means that angels are a tad higher in regards to their perfection.
perhaps they have a word for it in the spirit realm as we mere mortals do not.
-
-
Apognophos
The JW answer to the question about a future rebellion is that Jehovah would simply destroy a second Satan when he started to rebel. The universal sovereignty issue only needs to be settled once.
As for why Satan rebelled if he was perfect, why did Adam and Eve rebel, temptation aside? Why would Jesus be able to provide a ransom with his perfect life unless it was possible that he could decide to sin? These perfect beings had free will and could choose to sin, and some of them did (so the story goes).
On a deeper level, it is difficult to conceive of how free will would work, or how God is allowing free will to be exercised when he promises to flatten anyone who "freely" chooses not to obey him. However, if one believes in the magical concept of free will (and I find most people do, including many atheists), then the answer is simple: a free moral agent can choose to do whatever he wants.
-
16
Why do self-righteous hypocritical people ...
by hoser inwhy is it that people who display self-righteous hypocritical behaviour are so blind as not to see what kind of people they really are?.
-
-
Apognophos
It's just human nature to imagine ourselves as being superior to the masses. We give ourselves a pass on the same things for which we criticize others. The ego seems to be a critical component of our psyche and thus needs to be fed by a biased perspective. One can observe this taking place even on this very forum every day.
-
42
Ongoing frustration with wife
by Flipping El ini've tried taking the slow, patient approach with my wife.
i believe i first posted here about 13 months ago about my wife.. we've always had good communication and could talk endlessly about philosophy, neuroscience, sociology and then when i learned the ttatt, i clammed up a bit about spiritual things.
i'd always been fairly liberal, suggesting other alternative ideas, but then i told my wife about the un/ngo scandal (i ran across the guardian story doing a talk as an ms, lol!
-
-
Apognophos
Flipping El, please read this thread started by Muddy Waters: http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/284634/1/Female-Perspective-about-WTS-marital-relationship-control. There's a possibility that your wife is trying to ask you if you're going to leave her since you left the religion.
-
59
How to wake up and reverse the trance???
by J-DUBBED inhow do you wake up someone taken from us by these screwed up people?.
our son was hooked by a jw at the age of 25. within 3 months they were married and we never even new about it.
he is now 29 and has nothing to do with his family(except his sister the odd time, when he needs something) of any freinds.. we are lost and have been for four years.. .
-
-
Apognophos
Unfortunately, the reasons why people become Witnesses are varied, and they go back to deeply-seated aspects of the human mind. We really need a psychology paper to be written on this so I can point people to it....
Suffice to say that the religion is meeting one or more of his needs. It might be anxiety over what the future holds, or fear of death, that drew him to the religion. But I bet it's probably his desire to stay sober that is motivating him. The religion has been known to attract addicts who are looking to clean themselves up and need a regimented environment to do so (sometimes it comes down to being a JW or joining the army...). So the religion can at least do that much good for someone, even as it causes other problems.
On another note, I think one pertinent question is why you would rather have him talking to you and doing drugs than leaving a cleaned up life and not talking to you. Don't you want what's best for him?
-
15
JW's donations going to sexual abuse cases?
by Ginx ini posted in the child abuse section, but it hasn't been active for a few days.. i read somewhere on the internet (don't recall what site it was) that jw's donations are going towards sexual abuse cases.. is this true?.
where can i find solid evidence regarding this matter?.
.
-
-
Apognophos
Nice, Atlantis.
-
30
"You can't believe anything science says, they're always changing their minds.."
by disposable hero of hypocrisy ini know this is going to come up in a conversation shortly, how would you respond to this?
i've had it said to me before, specifically about health, one week wine/eggs/milk/axle grease is good for you, next week it's not..
-
-
Apognophos
Don't help the JWs make excuses, apostrate. Of course you're right about science and medicine, but the problem is that JWs need to let go of their either-or, black-and-white thinking. JWs are always happy to accept the fruits of science into their lives right up until the scientists say something that goes against their beliefs. It's on the JW to explain why those areas of science are less reliable than the ones that built the civilization which they are a part of.
-
27
I have nothing left in the tank, I need help
by Yondaime ini dont have the willpower to attend meetings anymore.
i'm literally on the sound system list every week.
i'm either reading on sunday or tuesday, praying on tuesday nites, adjusting mics, passing mics, or working the sound system, or doing last minute parts for the service meeting.
-
-
Apognophos
Man, why are you doing so much? It's not necessary to do all those things in order to satisfy the brothers that you're a believing Witness. You need to consider your mental health. As Justnowout says, you should ask the appropriate brother(s) if you can temporarily put some of your responsibilities on hold. Pick the things that are most stressful to you and put those on pause. You may never want to resume them again, but you and they don't have to know that right now. Just ask for a temporary reprieve. Are the most stressful tasks the talks and the reading for the study? Then talk to the school overseer and the Watchtower conductor.
If you have the appropriately contrite expression on your face when you speak to the brother who is in charge of whatever area you need to do less in, then unless he's a jerk and doesn't like you, he won't give you a hard time. Even if he does give you a hard time, just squirm and look pained and refuse to give in to his pressure. You can honestly tell him that it's causing you too much stress right now. Guess what? He can't make you do anything. Some brothers will even just take someone off their list lickety-split if they're asked nicely, without making a big deal out of it.
Frankly, you sound like you have a problem saying "no". Usually this stems from being overly concerned with what others think. It gets easier to say "no" when you get older, but there's no time to start learning like the present. Don't worry about what he'll think of you -- "Will he think I'm spiritually weak? Will he just plain think I'm a wuss? Will he suspect me of not being a genuine JW since I 'should' be able to do these things and go to college at the same time?" -- just shut those thoughts out of your mind. They don't matter. The brother in question is just a nudnik who believes in silly things and, while he may matter to your world as long as you're an active Witness, some time in the next few years he won't matter at all.