Posts by Gamaliel

18

Is the WTBTS still an NGO????

by Tashawaa in

is there proof?.

i know they "disassociated" from the dpi, but did they also disassociate completely from the un as an ngo?

i wrote and asked the wtbts, but never got a response.

You make a good point about the political involvements the WTS continues as part of their Holocaust PR campaign. WTS gets a lot of mileage out these associations, and for that matter, it truly is for one of the few things the JWs deserve some credit for facing. BTW, you may have given the ANCA a little too much credit in the following quote of yours, so I have included the whole first page of the anca site.

This is one of the largest grassroot Political organizations

The Armenian National Committee of America (ANCA) is the largest and most influential Armenian American grassroots political organization. Working in coordination with a network of offices, chapters and supporters throughout the United States and affiliated organizations around the world, the ANCA actively advances the concerns of the Armenian American community on a broad range of issues.

The main goals of the ANCA are:
To foster public awareness in support of a free, united and independent Armenia;
To influence and guide U.S. policy on matters of interest to the Armenian American community;
To represent the collective Armenian American viewpoint on matters of public policy, while serving as liaison between the community and their elected officials.
The Armenian National Committee of America is active in a number of areas and engages in a wide variety of political and educational activities, including:
Initiating legislation on issues of concern to the Armenian American community, such as strengthening Armenia as a secure, prosperous and democratic state; supporting Nagorno Karabagh's right to self-determination and independence within secure borders; increasing U.S. aid levels to Armenia to promote economic and democratic development; securing direct U.S. aid to Nagorno Karabagh; ensuring the appropriate commemoration of the Armenian Genocide; and encouraging Turkey and Azerbaijan to lift their blockades and adhere to international standards for human rights and humanitarian practices.
Participating in the American electoral process at the federal, state, and local levels by educating elected officials about Armenian American issues and providing Armenian American voters with up-to-date information about the positions of candidates on Armenian American concerns. The ANCA regularly endorses candidates, organizes voter registration drives, and distributes Candidate Questionnaires, Congressional Report Cards and Election Guides to Armenian American voters.

28

ALERT--ALERT--Randys Got Watchtower On Tape--Backing Bush! Money Laundering

by Voyager in

here is the thread you need: http://www.randytv.com/laundermoney.htm.

watchtower admits, from the watchtower's treasurers office, to backing bush, and engaging in political, military, and government programs.

laundering money through their holocaust fund.

Gamaliel

voyager,

I'm very sorry this thread so quickly degraded, but I wish to respond because of the implication that Randy's site is being trashed. You said:

This is truely all we need, people trashing Free Minds. It is quite clear that these people have not done their research.

I don’t trash Free Minds, I think it’s one of the top ex-JW sites out there. I’m glad Randy has found the time, energy and money to continue it so well for so long. "God bless him!"

The recording still serves a purpose. To me the recording shows that the WTS is willing to accept money from anyone for whatever purpose as long as they can still, at least loosely, tie it to the fund purpose for which they are collecting. It may open the eyes of JWs to see just how sloppy the WTS was. Most JWs would probably have expected the WTS to question the donation and not accept it. Although I think the person offering the money can be seen to be a bit devious in his attempt to entrap the WTS, many JWs would still have expected the WTS to be guided by Holy Spirit to the extent that they would not have been fooled.

The meaning that you have invested in the recording may very well turn out to be true, but it is not derived from the recording itself. Perhaps it will be valuable as circumstantial evidence if more direct evidence shows up. My negative reaction only spoke to what I thought were exaggerations in your title. I was disappointed. I’m afraid that this type of promotion (whether the claims are true or not) will more probably make it look like exJWs are so desparate that they will grasp at conspiracy theories and other "straws."

Gamaliel

50

Do You Remember the Day of Your Baptism?

by minimus in

jw
friends

your baptism date is supposed to be the most important time of your life.

i was 9 years old when i took the plunge.

i remember my baptism, mostly because, i was baptized twice.

Gamaliel

I remember the day...

Baptized 7/21/.. (10 years old)

Married 6/21/..

Born 5/21/..

Left JWs 4/21/..

I like to keep all my rites of passages easy to remember. Apparently, I will die on March 21st.

Gamaliel

edited by Gamaliel for invading his own privacy...

28

ALERT--ALERT--Randys Got Watchtower On Tape--Backing Bush! Money Laundering

by Voyager in

here is the thread you need: http://www.randytv.com/laundermoney.htm.

watchtower admits, from the watchtower's treasurers office, to backing bush, and engaging in political, military, and government programs.

laundering money through their holocaust fund.

Gamaliel

The guy doing the recording was quite aware of his own need to be a bit dishonest in his attempt at entrapment. The WTS is very practiced at taking all money directed at them WITHOUT making any admissions about what they will use it for. They talk to people all the time that they consider to be "nutty" and the WTS merely filters out the extraneous words. It must have been frustrating to know that he couldn't get a direct admission from the WTS and therefore he had to try to put the words in their mouth. Sounded like the WTS went for the bait, and managed to grab it ($7,fwiw) without getting hooked.

Sorry, to me it seemed like a clever attempt -- but non-eventful.

Gamaliel

16

Not another MEMORIAL thread!! (...But this one has pictures!)

by Gamaliel in

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Gamaliel

My wife's cousin was raised to be a JW, but she chose 7DA (to her mother's shame). Her focus is on healthy food. She claims not to give much emphasis to the person of Ellen G White, or the doctrines. She pretends that the doctrines are secondary and doesn't get preachy about them, but she will get defensive when I mimic her same, nonchalant, low-key manner to disagree with Ellen. I didn't realize they were still so hung up on her as the "infallible spokesperson." I could tell she was still being protected, but I'll have to read the material you suggested to get a better idea how far.

Thanks, Gamaliel

16

Not another MEMORIAL thread!! (...But this one has pictures!)

by Gamaliel in

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Gamaliel

refiner's,

Thanks. I'll look for it. I can tell from some recent study on them that you're right, they aren't as worried about EGW and some early "Pioneers." The JW Proclaimer's book went a little farther into their history than they had in the past, but it was obviously only to give the "illusion" of honesty. I think that the 7DA understood that they shouldn't have to feel haunted by their past, so they came clean with almost all of it. JWs have tied too much into the "why Jesus chose them and them alone" as the FDS. I get the impression that Russellites/Bible Student groups are more defensive of Russell than they have to be.

I was at the NYC Research Library on 42nd St last week to read some volumes of the Bible Examiner (George Storr's Six Sermons, etc). Turns out that a lot of this material was sent down to be microfilmed but had been "stolen" from the shelves. All of my several requests turned up only 5 empty microfilm boxes, and no actual books on the shelf either. They are trying to get a couple of things from other libraries for me, but I'd love to find a place that has all the 19th century Bible Examiner volumes, if they exist anywhere.

Gamaliel

16

Not another MEMORIAL thread!! (...But this one has pictures!)

by Gamaliel in

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Gamaliel

Jourles,

It's fine by me if you want to post it... I just did. I don't know the rules on this, and I think that anyone who wants to use it for anything can think of it as their own. Just treat it as if it was public domain, found on the web, and you shouldn't have to remove it unless an owner or copyright holder makes a specific request.

Gamaliel

16

Not another MEMORIAL thread!! (...But this one has pictures!)

by Gamaliel in

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Gamaliel

Since this thread was supposed to be about the memorial, I'll add my 2 cents. There have already been enough comments that the memorial makes no sense doctrinally, biblically or rationally. It's almost like JWs heard Jesus say, "Keep on doing something different from this, in mockery of me." Even if there were supposed to be two classes, where on earth does one class get the idea that the other class shouldn't partake?

I'm thinking, though, that the screwed-up logic of an ancient ceremony is part of the appeal. You are supposed to sit in some ceremonial stupor and let logic drift away. Your mind should be so numbed by now that you listen and believe a story that you would otherwise believe is crazy if you hadn't been told "often" that this is all good and wonderful. You are reminded by the speaker that the ceremony has its most ancient roots in a 3,500 year old practice by the Jews of butchering a little lamb and splattering blood around the front door of their house. For them, it was a yearly reminder of when Jehovah their God, freed their tribe from Egypt by bringing plagues of locusts and hail and gnats and frogs and boils and blood -- oh my! Finally he drowned all the kings horses and all the kings men somewhere near the modern-day Suez canal between Egypt and Saudi Arabia. Then, only 1,500 years later, Mary had a little Lamb [of God, that takes away the sin of the world]. We're vaguely listening as we hear that the first ceremony by Jesus might have been attended by Judas, who was unworthy. Corinthians is read where Paul talks about a class of people who come to the memorial disrespectfully, and they are unworthy, eating and drinking judgment unto themselves. And then the speaker subtly tries to remind us that JWs believe we're all unworthy and we won't be partaking unless we really, really really know within ourselves that we want to be with Christ in heaven. And even then, true JWs remember that we're probably wrong because Jesus finished choosing early in the last century -- and how many cases of bad judgment do we think that Jesus or the Holy Spirit made up until 1881, or 1918, or 1935?

Gamaliel

16

Not another MEMORIAL thread!! (...But this one has pictures!)

by Gamaliel in

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Gamaliel

Jourles,

The pictures were posted on the Internet when someone was trying to sell them. I am not the owner. I wrote the owner and asked if I could pay for a copy, but he never answered.

I can't even vouch for their authenticity, except that there is nothing in them that contradicts what we know about their beliefs at the time. It was the perfectly normal and expected answer to the question of whether new ones were still being called.

Gamaliel

16

Not another MEMORIAL thread!! (...But this one has pictures!)

by Gamaliel in

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Gamaliel

refiner's,

I remember reading about how Ellen G White (Millerite) once wanted a lot of her old books returned so that early prophecies could be removed/restated with less noise. I don't know if that story is even true. I understand that the WTS once felt embarrassed about a few of Russell's old works and asked for "donations" which Arthur Worsely (at Bethel) was asked to burn as the donations came in. I never got up the nerve to ask Arthur if it was true (because I didn't want to bring up the subject of fire at Bethel in the middle of a "witch hunt") The old brother died shortly after I left. Does anyone else know the story?

Ellen and her husband definitely caused a commotion they had a hard time explaining when they first reprinted her prophecies with the "closed door" prophecies missing. I get the feeling the 7DA's have just recently become less worried about them, because they seem to be prepared to show almost all of her extant prophecies now (with perhaps a bit of editing) -- even those old embarrassing ones. It's something I plan to look into when I get a chance.

Gamaliel

Sorry about the delay in getting the pictures up. The picture link wording in the dialog box makes it look like we could now "load" pictures so I tried it.