Posts by Duran

65

In Response to Anony Mous regarding the 144,000 and other questions...

by EasyPrompt in

still, you hold onto false teachings of the wtbts which are only there for the enrichment of its chiefs.. as pointed out, the rest of the book of revelation is figurative, yet you hold that the number 144,000 is literal.

the wtbts currently says that this number is limited to those running the wtbts and that anyone claiming to be part of it outside that self-selecting group could be mentally ill.. by what reasoning (not from wtbts origin) do you believe only 144,000 people will be ‘saved’, and how do you know who is part of this self-selected group, given virtually no other religious denomination does even remotely believe in the literalism of revelation.

do they have to be jws?

Duran

The trumpet Paul was talking about ("the last trumpet") was the one Jesus mentioned in Matthew 24:31...That is at the end of the 3 1/2 year great tribulation.

Yes, that is so. And that is when Jesus is said to come and with his coming, so does the kingdom, the 3rd woe.

[“Immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then the sign of the Son of man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will beat themselves in grief, and they will see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he will send out his angels with a great trumpet sound, and they will gather his chosen ones together from the four winds, from one extremity of the heavens to their other extremity.] [in a moment, in the blink of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised up incorruptible, and we will be changed]

[The sixth angel blew his trumpet...

[The second woe is past. Look! The third woe is coming quickly.]

[The seventh angel blew his trumpet. And there were loud voices in heaven, saying: “The kingdom of the world has become the Kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and he will rule as king forever and ever.”]

33

Revelation stuff per request for PetrW

by EasyPrompt in

per request from petrw🙂, some revelation stuff.... .

the four horsemen didn't start in 1914 or earlier- the timing is once jesus is enthroned in heaven.. .

the winds of destruction are on the religious institutions.. .

Duran

The Bible shows that the four horsemen are just another way of describing the 3 1/2 years of the great tribulation.

SAY WHAT?

The 3 1/2 year GT is the time the wild beast is said to have his said 42-month authority, which time the holy city is trampled.

The events of the horsemen are what match the events of the 'pangs of distress' and they lead to the why/how the beast will be given his said authority by the 10 kings.

[And authority was given them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with a long sword and with food shortage and with deadly plague and by the wild beasts of the earth.]

[It was given a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies, and it was given authority to act for 42 months.] [It was permitted to wage war with the holy ones and conquer them, and it was given authority over every tribe and people and tongue and nation.] [If anyone is meant for captivity, he will go into captivity. If anyone will kill with the sword, he must be killed with the sword. This is where it calls for endurance and faith on the part of the holy ones.] [And they will fall by the edge of the sword and be led captive into all the nations; and Jerusalem will be trampled on by the nations until the appointed times of the nations are fulfilled.] [But as for the courtyard that is outside the temple sanctuary, leave it out and do not measure it, because it has been given to the nations, and they will trample the holy city underfoot for 42 months.] [Between the porch and the altar Let the priests, the ministers of Jehovah, weep and say:‘Do feel pity, O Jehovah, for your people; Do not make your inheritance an object of scorn, Letting the nations rule over them. Why should the peoples say, “Where is their God?”’]

43

Who are the 144K Male Jewish Virgins in Revelation 7?

by Sea Breeze in

no mystery here.

they are all male jewish virgins, just like scripture says.

so, why all the muck and fuss?

Duran

That is not exactly what scripture says. It says we are not appointed to wrath (period). Jesus is not a wife-beater.

I believe there are sound reasons that holy ones are God’s holy people.... aka "saints" First, when Paul uses the Greek word for holy ones (hagios) to refer to beings, he always refers to holy people.

You are not wrong in saying that the saints (chosen ones) are referred to as 'holy ones' But also the angels are referred to as being 'holy'. At 1 Thessalonians 3:13, ALL HIS HOLY ONES would include his chosen and angels. When Jesus comes (AFTER the GT) he does so with his angels, and they (the angels) gather the chosen ones. Therefore, ALL holy ones will be together when Jesus comes. And again, the wrath that is said not to be appointed to is speaking about Armageddon, not the GT.

[For whoever becomes ashamed of me and my words in this adulterous and sinful generation, the Son of man will also be ashamed of him when he comes in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.”]

[And then they will see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. And then he will send out the angels and will gather his chosen ones together from the four winds, from earth’s extremity to heaven’s extremity.]

[so that he may make your hearts firm, blameless in holiness before our God and Father at the presence of our Lord Jesus with all his holy ones.]

[This takes into account that it is righteous on God’s part to repay tribulation to those who make tribulation for you. But you who suffer tribulation will be given relief along with us at the revelation of the Lord Jesus from heaven with his powerful angels]

[“For nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be food shortages and earthquakes in one place after another. All these things are a beginning of pangs of distress. “Then people will hand you over to tribulation]

[It was given a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies, and it was given authority to act for 42 months.] [It was permitted to wage war with the holy ones and conquer them, and it was given authority over every tribe and people and tongue and nation.] [If anyone is meant for captivity, he will go into captivity. If anyone will kill with the sword, he must be killed with the sword. This is where it calls for endurance and faith on the part of the holy ones.]

60

Sign of the Last Days

by Fisherman in

in the sermon on the mount, jesus foretold that earthquakes “in one place after another” would be part of the sign of the last days clímaxing in the great tribulation.. what could jesus possibly have meant?

using a phone app nowadays, there are earthquakes detected in one place after another but is this what jesus meant and did they have so many earthquakes throughout the centuries affter his prophecy or are these modern day detected earthquakes unique to this epoch?

how can we be sure unequivocally that modern day earthquakes are part of the sign fulfilling bible prophecy?.

Duran

If storms were intended, the authors would have used the word for storms, lailaps.

That is a fair statement and good observation but if earthquakes were also to occur as well then seismos is the right word to use. Using lailaps there would rule out earthquakes occurring.

43

Who are the 144K Male Jewish Virgins in Revelation 7?

by Sea Breeze in

no mystery here.

they are all male jewish virgins, just like scripture says.

so, why all the muck and fuss?

Duran

A literal reading of this scripture certainly agrees with the scripture that says when Jesus returns he will have ~~his saints~~ with him. He returns "with all ~~His~~ ~~saints~~" (1 Th. 3:13) What other way could this possibly be understood?

[May he strengthen your hearts so that you will be blameless and holy in the presence of our God and Father when our Lord Jesus comes with all his holy ones.]

No mention of him coming with his saints there, it is speaking to his saints. He comes with his angels and they gather his saints (chosen).

[If anyone is ashamed of me and my words in this adulterous and sinful generation, the Son of Man will be ashamed of them when he comes in his Father’s glory with the holy angels.]

[And God will provide rest for you who are being persecuted and also for us when the Lord Jesus appears from heaven. He will come with his mighty angels,]

[For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. Then, together with them, we who are still alive and remain on the earth will be caught up in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. Then we will be with the Lord forever.]

[And then at last, the sign that the Son of Man is coming will appear in the heavens, and there will be deep mourning among all the peoples of the earth. And they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he will send out his angels with the mighty blast of a trumpet, and they will gather his chosen ones from all over the world—from the farthest ends of the earth and heaven.]

60

Sign of the Last Days

by Fisherman in

in the sermon on the mount, jesus foretold that earthquakes “in one place after another” would be part of the sign of the last days clímaxing in the great tribulation.. what could jesus possibly have meant?

using a phone app nowadays, there are earthquakes detected in one place after another but is this what jesus meant and did they have so many earthquakes throughout the centuries affter his prophecy or are these modern day detected earthquakes unique to this epoch?

how can we be sure unequivocally that modern day earthquakes are part of the sign fulfilling bible prophecy?.

Duran

So, am I putting to much emphasis on the Watchtower? There are a remnant of genuine anointed who are the target of deception. They belong to Christ, they are his kings of the earth/priests.

Absolutely too much emphasis. If their claim to fame (to being appointed the f&ds) in 1919 is a false teaching, then what basis is there to think that Jesus has anything more or less to do with them than any of all the other so-called Christian faiths? What is the poof that there are any genuine anointed among watchtower?

In the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus foretold that earthquakes “in one place after another” would be part of the sign of the last days clímaxing in the great tribulation.

4578. seismos

a earthquake,

a storm - a violent disturbance of the atmosphere with strong winds and usually rain, thunder, lightning, or snow.

hurricane, tornado, snowstorm, blizzard, rainstorm, ice storm

POD

GT

43

Who are the 144K Male Jewish Virgins in Revelation 7?

by Sea Breeze in

no mystery here.

they are all male jewish virgins, just like scripture says.

so, why all the muck and fuss?

Duran

SB: The Christian hope for those alive just prior to the GT is the Rapture - the snatching away.

If that is what you think and you believe that chart, then there is perhaps nothing I can say to correct your thinking, but that is not what the Bible states. Jesus is said to have a 2nd coming and it is AFTER the GT. This does not allow for him to come BEFORE the GT.

43

Who are the 144K Male Jewish Virgins in Revelation 7?

by Sea Breeze in

no mystery here.

they are all male jewish virgins, just like scripture says.

so, why all the muck and fuss?

Duran

SB: Church age believers will not go through the GT. We are not appointed to wrath: For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ - 1 Thess, 5: 9

The wrath that (as you word it) 'Church age believes' will not be appointed to is Armageddon. All 'believers' will certainly go through the GT. That is what will determine whom a TRUE believe is. One either comes out of the GT a sheep or a goat. Goats are appointed to wrath and sheep to salvation.

1 Thess that you cite above takes place AFTER the GT and corresponds to Matt 24:30,31.

43

Who are the 144K Male Jewish Virgins in Revelation 7?

by Sea Breeze in

no mystery here.

they are all male jewish virgins, just like scripture says.

so, why all the muck and fuss?

Duran

Vid: Question is: When is the sealing to take place?

The answer is NO none have been sealed, it is to take place still future according to what is written, but that does not matter in regard to what I am saying. In order for these individuals to be sealed in the future, they have to exist prior to their sealing.

Are you aware of ANY on earth today that can be said to be following the Lamb wherever he goes, are not defiling themselves, and they have no deceit in their mouths and without blemish? Those requirements are to be found in them prior to their sealing.

43

Who are the 144K Male Jewish Virgins in Revelation 7?

by Sea Breeze in

no mystery here.

they are all male jewish virgins, just like scripture says.

so, why all the muck and fuss?

Duran

there will be chosen ones*
* [These are the ones who keep following the Lamb no matter where he goes. These were bought from among mankind as firstfruits to God and to the Lamb]

Rather the Bible is true or not, that is what it says. So, if it is true, then there should be those. If it is not true, then there is no Lamb to follow, so there are no chosen ones to rule, etc.

I find myself in a conundrum. I admit that I believe in Jehovah (Jehoah) and Jesus (Jehoshua), at least as far as what the Bible says. I know that believing the Bible doesn't mean it's true, but that is where I am at, that is what I believe. To not believe in the Bible, is a belief in itself. (To be an atheist, etc.) I can't prove the Bible is true, therefore prove Jehoah and Jehoshua are. I believe what I do though because I see as poof with my own eyes that man CANNOT rule themselves.

But something that I should also be able to see for myself (we all should) if they existed, are these so-called 144k chosen ones (rather literal or symbolic).

I would settle for just knowing the whereabouts of just one of them.

[These are the ones who did not defile themselves with women; in fact, they are virgins. These are the ones who keep following the Lamb no matter where he goes. These were bought from among mankind as firstfruits to God and to the Lamb, and no deceit was found in their mouths; they are without blemish.]

Where are ANY of these so-called chosen ones now?