Duran

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Posts by Duran

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  65

  In Response to Anony Mous regarding the 144,000 and other questions...

  by EasyPrompt in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  still, you hold onto false teachings of the wtbts which are only there for the enrichment of its chiefs.. as pointed out, the rest of the book of revelation is figurative, yet you hold that the number 144,000 is literal.

  the wtbts currently says that this number is limited to those running the wtbts and that anyone claiming to be part of it outside that self-selecting group could be mentally ill.. by what reasoning (not from wtbts origin) do you believe only 144,000 people will be ‘saved’, and how do you know who is part of this self-selected group, given virtually no other religious denomination does even remotely believe in the literalism of revelation.

  do they have to be jws?

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• 

  Duran

  Ch 13

  I saw that one of its heads seemed to have been fatally wounded, but its mortal wound had been healed,

  It was given a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies, and it was given authority to act for 42 months.

  It was permitted to wage war with the holy ones and conquer them,

  Ch 11
  

  When they have finished their witnessing, the wild beast that ascends out of the abyss will wage war with them and conquer them and kill them.

  Ch 17

  The wild beast that you saw was, but is not, and yet is about to ascend out of the abyss, and it is to go off into destruction.

  These have one thought, so they give their power and authority to the wild beast.

  Ch 19

  And the wild beast was caught, and along with it the false prophet that performed in front of it the signs with which he misled those who received the mark of the wild beast and those who worship its image. While still alive, they both were hurled into the fiery lake that burns with sulfur.
• 
  65

  In Response to Anony Mous regarding the 144,000 and other questions...

  by EasyPrompt in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  still, you hold onto false teachings of the wtbts which are only there for the enrichment of its chiefs.. as pointed out, the rest of the book of revelation is figurative, yet you hold that the number 144,000 is literal.

  the wtbts currently says that this number is limited to those running the wtbts and that anyone claiming to be part of it outside that self-selecting group could be mentally ill.. by what reasoning (not from wtbts origin) do you believe only 144,000 people will be ‘saved’, and how do you know who is part of this self-selected group, given virtually no other religious denomination does even remotely believe in the literalism of revelation.

  do they have to be jws?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Duran

  the difference is too big for them to be the same.

  Actually, it is the opposite. The similarities are too close for them to be different.
  

  The death stroke on the beast is the going into the abyss. The healing of the death stroke is the coming out of the abyss.
  

  The 10 kings giving their power and authority to the beast is the said 42-month authority the beast is said to be given.

  When the beast is said to come out of the abyss, it is said that those who admire it with amazement, etc., that not one of their names will be written in the book of life.

  Likewise, the same is said about the beast whose death stroke gets healed.
  
  
• 
  33

  Revelation stuff per request for PetrW

  by EasyPrompt in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  per request from petrw🙂, some revelation stuff.... .

  the four horsemen didn't start in 1914 or earlier- the timing is once jesus is enthroned in heaven.. .

  the winds of destruction are on the religious institutions.. .

  1. 
  2. 
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• 

  Duran

  The first woe should then be described in the next chapter. It is about a 5 month long period of locusts that torment people, but do not kill. It looks like for me that the second woe could be the coming 42 months

  That is correct according to what is written.
  

  The 3 woes are trumpet's 5, 6 and 7.

  Trumpet's 1-4 and events with them take place before these last 3 woes. The locust event occurs in the 1st woe, then in 2nd woe the 42-months occur and then AFTER the 3rd woe comes, which is Jesus coming with the kingdom- Armageddon.
  
• 
  65

  In Response to Anony Mous regarding the 144,000 and other questions...

  by EasyPrompt in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  still, you hold onto false teachings of the wtbts which are only there for the enrichment of its chiefs.. as pointed out, the rest of the book of revelation is figurative, yet you hold that the number 144,000 is literal.

  the wtbts currently says that this number is limited to those running the wtbts and that anyone claiming to be part of it outside that self-selecting group could be mentally ill.. by what reasoning (not from wtbts origin) do you believe only 144,000 people will be ‘saved’, and how do you know who is part of this self-selected group, given virtually no other religious denomination does even remotely believe in the literalism of revelation.

  do they have to be jws?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Duran

  The said 'one hour' is referring to the 'hour of test' that is to come upon the world. That time of test is the 42-month authority of the beast.
  

  Beast in 13 and 17 are the same.
  

  [I saw that one of its heads seemed to have been fatally wounded, but its mortal wound had been healed,]

  [The wild beast that you saw was, but is not, and yet is about to ascend out of the abyss]
• 
  43

  Who are the 144K Male Jewish Virgins in Revelation 7?

  by Sea Breeze in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  no mystery here.

  they are all male jewish virgins, just like scripture says.

  so, why all the muck and fuss?

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  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Duran

  @ nicolaou

  LOL!
  
• 
  65

  In Response to Anony Mous regarding the 144,000 and other questions...

  by EasyPrompt in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  still, you hold onto false teachings of the wtbts which are only there for the enrichment of its chiefs.. as pointed out, the rest of the book of revelation is figurative, yet you hold that the number 144,000 is literal.

  the wtbts currently says that this number is limited to those running the wtbts and that anyone claiming to be part of it outside that self-selecting group could be mentally ill.. by what reasoning (not from wtbts origin) do you believe only 144,000 people will be ‘saved’, and how do you know who is part of this self-selected group, given virtually no other religious denomination does even remotely believe in the literalism of revelation.

  do they have to be jws?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Duran

  The trumpet Paul was talking about ("the last trumpet") was the one Jesus mentioned in Matthew 24:31...That is at the end of the 3 1/2 year great tribulation.

  Yes, that is so. And that is when Jesus is said to come and with his coming, so does the kingdom, the 3rd woe.

  [“Immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then the sign of the Son of man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will beat themselves in grief, and they will see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he will send out his angels with a great trumpet sound, and they will gather his chosen ones together from the four winds, from one extremity of the heavens to their other extremity.] [in a moment, in the blink of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised up incorruptible, and we will be changed]

  [The sixth angel blew his trumpet...

  [The second woe is past. Look! The third woe is coming quickly.]

  [The seventh angel blew his trumpet. And there were loud voices in heaven, saying: “The kingdom of the world has become the Kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and he will rule as king forever and ever.”]

  
  
• 
  33

  Revelation stuff per request for PetrW

  by EasyPrompt in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  per request from petrw🙂, some revelation stuff.... .

  the four horsemen didn't start in 1914 or earlier- the timing is once jesus is enthroned in heaven.. .

  the winds of destruction are on the religious institutions.. .

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Duran

  The Bible shows that the four horsemen are just another way of describing the 3 1/2 years of the great tribulation.

  SAY WHAT?

  The 3 1/2 year GT is the time the wild beast is said to have his said 42-month authority, which time the holy city is trampled.

  The events of the horsemen are what match the events of the 'pangs of distress' and they lead to the why/how the beast will be given his said authority by the 10 kings.

  [And authority was given them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with a long sword and with food shortage and with deadly plague and by the wild beasts of the earth.]

  [It was given a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies, and it was given authority to act for 42 months.] [It was permitted to wage war with the holy ones and conquer them, and it was given authority over every tribe and people and tongue and nation.] [If anyone is meant for captivity, he will go into captivity. If anyone will kill with the sword, he must be killed with the sword. This is where it calls for endurance and faith on the part of the holy ones.] [And they will fall by the edge of the sword and be led captive into all the nations; and Jerusalem will be trampled on by the nations until the appointed times of the nations are fulfilled.] [But as for the courtyard that is outside the temple sanctuary, leave it out and do not measure it, because it has been given to the nations, and they will trample the holy city underfoot for 42 months.] [Between the porch and the altar Let the priests, the ministers of Jehovah, weep and say:‘Do feel pity, O Jehovah, for your people; Do not make your inheritance an object of scorn, Letting the nations rule over them. Why should the peoples say, “Where is their God?”’]
• 
  43

  Who are the 144K Male Jewish Virgins in Revelation 7?

  by Sea Breeze in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  no mystery here.

  they are all male jewish virgins, just like scripture says.

  so, why all the muck and fuss?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Duran

  That is not exactly what scripture says. It says we are not appointed to wrath (period). Jesus is not a wife-beater.

  I believe there are sound reasons that holy ones are God’s holy people.... aka "saints" First, when Paul uses the Greek word for holy ones (hagios) to refer to beings, he always refers to holy people.

  You are not wrong in saying that the saints (chosen ones) are referred to as 'holy ones' But also the angels are referred to as being 'holy'. At 1 Thessalonians 3:13, ALL HIS HOLY ONES would include his chosen and angels. When Jesus comes (AFTER the GT) he does so with his angels, and they (the angels) gather the chosen ones. Therefore, ALL holy ones will be together when Jesus comes. And again, the wrath that is said not to be appointed to is speaking about Armageddon, not the GT.

  [For whoever becomes ashamed of me and my words in this adulterous and sinful generation, the Son of man will also be ashamed of him when he comes in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.”]

  [And then they will see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. And then he will send out the angels and will gather his chosen ones together from the four winds, from earth’s extremity to heaven’s extremity.]

  [so that he may make your hearts firm, blameless in holiness before our God and Father at the presence of our Lord Jesus with all his holy ones.]

  [This takes into account that it is righteous on God’s part to repay tribulation to those who make tribulation for you. But you who suffer tribulation will be given relief along with us at the revelation of the Lord Jesus from heaven with his powerful angels]
  

  [“For nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be food shortages and earthquakes in one place after another. All these things are a beginning of pangs of distress. “Then people will hand you over to tribulation]

  [It was given a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies, and it was given authority to act for 42 months.] [It was permitted to wage war with the holy ones and conquer them, and it was given authority over every tribe and people and tongue and nation.] [If anyone is meant for captivity, he will go into captivity. If anyone will kill with the sword, he must be killed with the sword. This is where it calls for endurance and faith on the part of the holy ones.]
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  60

  Sign of the Last Days

  by Fisherman in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  in the sermon on the mount, jesus foretold that earthquakes “in one place after another” would be part of the sign of the last days clímaxing in the great tribulation.. what could jesus possibly have meant?

  using a phone app nowadays, there are earthquakes detected in one place after another but is this what jesus meant and did they have so many earthquakes throughout the centuries affter his prophecy or are these modern day detected earthquakes unique to this epoch?

  how can we be sure unequivocally that modern day earthquakes are part of the sign fulfilling bible prophecy?.

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  Duran

  If storms were intended, the authors would have used the word for storms, lailaps.

  That is a fair statement and good observation but if earthquakes were also to occur as well then seismos is the right word to use. Using lailaps there would rule out earthquakes occurring.
• 
  43

  Who are the 144K Male Jewish Virgins in Revelation 7?

  by Sea Breeze in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  no mystery here.

  they are all male jewish virgins, just like scripture says.

  so, why all the muck and fuss?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Duran

  A literal reading of this scripture certainly agrees with the scripture that says when Jesus returns he will have his saints with him. He returns "with all His saints" (1 Th. 3:13) What other way could this possibly be understood?

  [May he strengthen your hearts so that you will be blameless and holy in the presence of our God and Father when our Lord Jesus comes with all his holy ones.]
  

  No mention of him coming with his saints there, it is speaking to his saints. He comes with his angels and they gather his saints (chosen).

  [If anyone is ashamed of me and my words in this adulterous and sinful generation, the Son of Man will be ashamed of them when he comes in his Father’s glory with the holy angels.]
  

  [And God will provide rest for you who are being persecuted and also for us when the Lord Jesus appears from heaven. He will come with his mighty angels,]

  [For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. Then, together with them, we who are still alive and remain on the earth will be caught up in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. Then we will be with the Lord forever.]

  [And then at last, the sign that the Son of Man is coming will appear in the heavens, and there will be deep mourning among all the peoples of the earth. And they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he will send out his angels with the mighty blast of a trumpet, and they will gather his chosen ones from all over the world—from the farthest ends of the earth and heaven.]