Posts by Halcon

43

What Does The Organization Really Teach?

by Sea Breeze in

.

Halcon

Touchofgrey-You can't report on something (miracles)that never happened. So no historical accounts will exist.

Are you sure about this?

Not long before Christ, Julius Caesar had written his own Commentaries on the Gallic wars. His own first hand account of his victories on behalf of the Republic, with plenty of witnesses and historians that were right there in his camp writing on the events.

In his Commentaries, he claimed that at one battle his legions faced 430,000 Gauls...and defeated them... without losing ONE SINGLE Roman soldier. After their defeat, Julius claims the remaining Gauls were so emotionally defeated that most proceeded to commit suicide thereafter.

These amazing feats were written down and delivered in chapters and posted on the Forum for all of Rome to read in awe of Julius prowess. Not only that, these Commentaries were considered infallible by historians all the way up until the 20th century, when these claims were finally refuted.

Written history, it seems, is not quite so black and white.

43

What Does The Organization Really Teach?

by Sea Breeze in

.

Halcon

Tonus-So... people saw these amazing things, reported it, were brushed off, and everyone just shut up about it for the next 30-40 years before someone thought to write about it?

According to the gospels, Jesus' very own people were skeptical. He WAS the son of a carpenter after all, was he not? If those people actually walking next to him had serious doubts, what makes anyone believe that Senators, philosophers and historians in Rome had more faith than they?

These 'amazing' things that Jesus did are always interpreted by us in the present thru the very swayed and elaborate presentation of them in art and modern movies for example. We speak of them considerably after the fact. But how consequential were these events to distant people in distant lands in the very moment they were actually happening?

43

What Does The Organization Really Teach?

by Sea Breeze in

.

Halcon

Possibly these things might get someone's attention.

They did. The people that were actually there to see it. But these people, fishermen and goatherders , are very simply waived away.

On the subject of the resurrection, as is described by the gospels. How many historians were sent to his tomb to wait and see Christ risen? None. Nobody cared.

Lest we forget, Augustus had by now exiled even poets for alluding thru pretty cantos that the Caesar was anything less than a god. What reputable historian, IF he was sufficiently compelled, would undermine the god of the Roman empire, and get himself nailed to a cross?

43

What Does The Organization Really Teach?

by Sea Breeze in

.

Halcon

Touchofgrey-You have yet to provide independent and verified eyewitnes and historical evidence of the resurrection of jesus at the time it was supposedly happen.

For a person, Jesus, who only operated as the Messiah for a scant 3 years at most...and did it trying (desperately at times) to remain anonymous up until his death...sure did have a lasting and critical effect since then.

There's absolutely nothing in the gospels, or the entire Bible for that matter, that points to anything Christ did including the resurrection, that should be recorded and verified by historians.

The world wasn't much interested in the arrival of the Messiah. The Romans themselves, the real movers and shakers of the world at the time, were utterly indifferent to just about anything happening in Judea.

Who really believes that what a bunch of uneducated fishermen and the little towns around them did mattered enough to send historians to Judea and make note of what was happening?

43

What Does The Organization Really Teach?

by Sea Breeze in

.

Halcon

Seabreeze-Most Christians simply believe that the Resurrection really happened and that is the simple foundation for their faith. Churches are there so that like-minded people can hear the word of God, be encouraged and fellowship with one-another.

This is more or less what the episcopal church I watch online is. It's mostly ritual, some reading of the Old testament, a gospel and letters of the apostles. People are there mostly, from what I perceive, to listen to the readings, sing the songs, take the Eucharist and listen to the 30 min priest's sermon.

There's no real promising of anything in regards to the future except for the hope of heaven after death. But the focus is really never on the future, rather it's on living with faith now and simply hope for the best.

I also attended the meeting this weekend at the KH, and as usual, a very big deal is made of living for the future aka paradise after Armageddon. The public talk speaker tried his best to extract some kind of emotion from the audience when he emphasized the hope for paradise when "all our problems will be solved". But when I looked around people were either yawning or staring into space.

It seems that more than ever, the live only for the future schtick is really wearing thin these days.

23

What exactly IS 1914 these days?

by Halcon in

it's no longer a year tying to the present (the old pre-1995 generation belief).

realistically, that's the only reason why it mattered.

and if it doesn't really matter what it is anymore, why would jw not do away with it?.

Halcon

Had a similar thing happen at a circuit assembly around 1994, just before the generation teaching changed. The CO asked everyone that was over 75 years of age to stand up. When all of 2 or 3 old folks stood up the CO said something to the effect of "behold! The end is upon us!"

I can't help but lol when I think about it now...such dramatics.

17

How Does WT Explain away, "Absent from the Body, Present with the Lord"?

by Sea Breeze in

5now he that wrought us for this very thing is god, who gave unto us the earnest of the spirit.6being therefore always of good courage, and knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the lord 7(for we walk by faith, not by sight); 8we are of good courage, i say, and are willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be at home with the lord.

9wherefore also we make it our aim, whether at home or absent, to be well-pleasing unto him.. since watchtower teaches there is only one "you" and not three (soul, body & spirit); how do jw's deal with the fact that scripture says that it is possible for a person to be absent from their body and to be present with the lord in heaven?when i was pioneering, i don't recall a householder every dropping this verse on me; and i'm not sure how i would have handled it if they did.

what say you?.

Halcon

We can agree that JW and your faith BOTH have people living again in perfect physical bodies after death.

64

I am not redsetter, here is his message for you

by redsetter2 in

you read this correctly.

as i explained in an earlier post, i am a "ghostwriter" for the original resetter.

i'm a woman, a pimo regular pioneer working for my friend who was redsetter1 on reddit.

Halcon

Vidiot -…that there might be a lot more PIMOs than anybody thought (as strongly suggested by Covid/Zoom)…

…but more importantly…

…the Org leadership and loyalists truly cannot grasp that PIMOs genuinely no longer believe the WTS has “The Truth”

All religions of course require faith from their members. I think it's safe to say that most members do WANT to believe still. But so much hinged on the pre-1995 generation teaching. It was rather 'exciting' to truly believe that you were going to see Armageddon soon.

30 years later, something has to change. And I guess they are. It's ironic that JW members will eventually have to believe what more or less all other religions believe if it's going stick around.

64

I am not redsetter, here is his message for you

by redsetter2 in

you read this correctly.

as i explained in an earlier post, i am a "ghostwriter" for the original resetter.

i'm a woman, a pimo regular pioneer working for my friend who was redsetter1 on reddit.

Halcon

Ty Ron

Very interesting indeed. There are two things about this that stand out to me.

The first is that this truly comes across as very reactive. Even an elder in a congregation that is still 'all in' HAS to be asking himself "well what did you expect with all these changes?"

The other thing is that this type of announcement comes across as showing JW as being very dependent on actual effort by the members. It's contrasting to the idea that God's spirit will take care of things as important as the ministry for example.

I don't think this announcement was a good idea.

64

I am not redsetter, here is his message for you

by redsetter2 in

you read this correctly.

as i explained in an earlier post, i am a "ghostwriter" for the original resetter.

i'm a woman, a pimo regular pioneer working for my friend who was redsetter1 on reddit.

Halcon

Nowwhat- Now they're bitching to the elders in their latest letter that not enough bible studies are being started!

Interesting. Can someone put this letter on here?