Posts by Halcon

41

John 20: 28 in the NWT Calls Jesus God

by Sea Breeze in

in answer thomas said to him: “my lord and my god!

- john 20: 28 nwt.

why don't jehovah's witnesses believe jesus is god when he is called that in their own bible?.

Halcon

SB-To be the Son of God is to be of the same nature as God. The Son of God is “of God.” The claim to be of the same nature as God—to in fact be God—was blasphemy to the Jewish leaders; therefore, they demanded Jesus’ death, in keeping with Leviticus 24:15. Hebrews 1:3 expresses this very clearly, “The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of His being.” What is it about Jesus being God that bothered so many people then as it does now?

It's possible that the word 'God' conveys someone that is ultimate and above all else. For that title to belong to three separate persons seems to change the meaning of the word God at first.

The Bible clearly describes the Father (God the Father) as having attributes that God the Son doesn't have, because they are two separate beings although both retaining the title of God.

While Thomas acknowledged Jesus as being God, he didn't imply that the Son was the same person as the Father. I believe that it is saying the Son is the same person as the Father that may 'upset' people today.

66

Time of the end - a TRINITY puzzler.

by BoogerMan in

(matthew 24:36) “concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the son, but only the father.".

(jesus seems to have forgotten to include the holy spirit not knowing either).

(acts 1:7) "he said to them: “it does not belong to you to know the times or seasons that the father has placed in his own jurisdiction.".

Halcon

I believe it's revelatory that the criminal at Jesus' side was deemed worthy of salvation (heaven) by Jesus at the crucifixion.

Here is a criminal deserving of his execution by his own admission, where scriptures give no indication that he had obtained any knowledge of Christ or his relation to the Father. Or if he had, it wasn't enough to compel him to change his ways and avoid being sentenced.

Yet he was saved (by his expression of humility on the cross and whatever else Christ saw in his heart). It's difficult to argue that he would be the one lone exception and everyone else must have an absolute understanding of the essence of God to be saved. If it is truly the case that God "desires that all should be saved" then he won't hold our lack of comprehension against us.

66

Time of the end - a TRINITY puzzler.

by BoogerMan in

(matthew 24:36) “concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the son, but only the father.".

(jesus seems to have forgotten to include the holy spirit not knowing either).

(acts 1:7) "he said to them: “it does not belong to you to know the times or seasons that the father has placed in his own jurisdiction.".

Halcon

BoogerMan -According to several Scriptures, Jesus has a God. How can God have a God?

If you equate God with only the Father than it presents a logical problem. But if both the Father and the Son share the title of God (as in the Trinity) then yes, the Father is both Father and God to God the Son.

It only makes sense if you remember they are two separate persons sharing the same title.

66

Time of the end - a TRINITY puzzler.

by BoogerMan in

(matthew 24:36) “concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the son, but only the father.".

(jesus seems to have forgotten to include the holy spirit not knowing either).

(acts 1:7) "he said to them: “it does not belong to you to know the times or seasons that the father has placed in his own jurisdiction.".

Halcon

a) Are you & the Trinity doctrine saying the Father & the Son are now 2 separate individuals?

Not just now. The Trinity doctrine always held that the Father and the Son are two separate persons.

Are you & the Trinity doctrine saying that Jesus is not all-knowing?

Clearly, according to the scripture. But even without having all knowledge and being in subjection to the Father, Jesus retains the title of God.

This has always been the Trinity doctrine.

66

Time of the end - a TRINITY puzzler.

by BoogerMan in

(matthew 24:36) “concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the son, but only the father.".

(jesus seems to have forgotten to include the holy spirit not knowing either).

(acts 1:7) "he said to them: “it does not belong to you to know the times or seasons that the father has placed in his own jurisdiction.".

Halcon

If you are saying that both Jesus and God can be called “God”, but that God is superior to Jesus in knowledge (and power and eternity) then that’s actually what JWs believe, not Trinitarians.

Jesus and the Father both (tho separate beings) are called God by the Trinitarians. "God" is a title. The Father is clearly superior in knowledge and the head of the Son, Jesus per the scriptures (Catholic and protestant). Yet the Son retains the title of God.

As I said somewhere in another thread, the teachings of JW and Trinitarians are not as different as they may first appear to be.

66

Time of the end - a TRINITY puzzler.

by BoogerMan in

(matthew 24:36) “concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the son, but only the father.".

(jesus seems to have forgotten to include the holy spirit not knowing either).

(acts 1:7) "he said to them: “it does not belong to you to know the times or seasons that the father has placed in his own jurisdiction.".

Halcon

Nobody can know more than God. If there is somebody who knows something Jesus doesn’t know, that means Jesus can’t be God.

Nobody knows more than the Father, to be more precise (according to theTrinity doctrine).

The title of God however is held also by the Son. Which is to say that God the Son is not all-knowing, per the scriptures we've referenced in this thread.

66

Time of the end - a TRINITY puzzler.

by BoogerMan in

(matthew 24:36) “concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the son, but only the father.".

(jesus seems to have forgotten to include the holy spirit not knowing either).

(acts 1:7) "he said to them: “it does not belong to you to know the times or seasons that the father has placed in his own jurisdiction.".

Halcon

Boogerman- Matthew 24:36) “Concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father."

Because the Trinity doctrine still has the Father and the Son as being two separate beings (sharing the same title of God). It follows that one could know something that the other may not, because they are two separate beings.

25

Is Belief in Jesus Enough to be Saved? Or Does it Include Believing Jesus?

by Sea Breeze in

i don't think it is possible to believe in jesus and then not believe what he said.

the purpose of the watchtower organization is to take as many people to hell as possible.

they do this by tricking people into rejecting the bare minimum requirements for the free gift of salvation that jesus offered to ”whosoever”.. one of the stipulations for salvation is belief that jesus was raised from the dead:.

Halcon

Phizzy-Of course Paul here and elsewhere is selling the Scam of Sin* and invented Remedy for Sin which apparently can be inherited. * "Sin" is an offence against a god, since no gods exist, or ever did, there is of course no such thing.

A Christian arrives at the same conclusion that sin is nonexistent thru the grace of God.

In the end (as always), the real issue is will you, a human being and inferior recognize God or not?

25

Is Belief in Jesus Enough to be Saved? Or Does it Include Believing Jesus?

by Sea Breeze in

i don't think it is possible to believe in jesus and then not believe what he said.

the purpose of the watchtower organization is to take as many people to hell as possible.

they do this by tricking people into rejecting the bare minimum requirements for the free gift of salvation that jesus offered to ”whosoever”.. one of the stipulations for salvation is belief that jesus was raised from the dead:.

Halcon

JWs believe that Jesus and Jehovah are two separate persons, and that it was Jehovah who raised Jesus from the dead.

This is what all Christians believe. That God the Father raised God the Son from the dead.

They do not believe that they are two facets of the same being, or that Jesus returned himself to life.

Neither do Christians. Christians believe that the Father and the Son are two different beings sharing the same essence. It is thru that essence that Jesus could say he raised himself.

25

Is Belief in Jesus Enough to be Saved? Or Does it Include Believing Jesus?

by Sea Breeze in

i don't think it is possible to believe in jesus and then not believe what he said.

the purpose of the watchtower organization is to take as many people to hell as possible.

they do this by tricking people into rejecting the bare minimum requirements for the free gift of salvation that jesus offered to ”whosoever”.. one of the stipulations for salvation is belief that jesus was raised from the dead:.

Halcon

SB- The Watchtower and every JW that I have spoken with denies that Jesus raised himself from the dead. Was Jesus lying?

Is this truly correct tho?

When Jesus spoke of raising himself, it is understood that 'himself' is referring to the essence of God. But even that essence had to be separated into the form of Jesus as man (from the Father who always remained alive) in order for him to really die.

Jesus the Son still depended on the separate Father to raise him up. But because they are both of the same essence of God, Jesus said he raised himself. In reality the JW belief is not utterly different from just about all other Christian belief regarding this (even tho JW also claims to be innovative on this).

The issue is in the understanding of this 'essence' of God and not necessarily on the technicalities of how the resurrection of Christ actually occurred, which is something that no human will ever truly understand.