try this scenario for this generation!.
didnt jesus say when you see these signs, `all taken together, coming to pass, you may know `of a surety that he is near, at the very doors.
truly i tell you, this generation {the whole multitude of people living at the same time, in a definite, given period} will not pass away till all these things taken together take place {matthew 24: 33, 34} in verse 32 jesus gives an illustration to show us how to view the signs he has given us.
Bill,
….means that many of that generation will still be alive at His coming…. My understanding of that is that not all alive right now will die off.
try this scenario for this generation!.
didnt jesus say when you see these signs, `all taken together, coming to pass, you may know `of a surety that he is near, at the very doors.
truly i tell you, this generation {the whole multitude of people living at the same time, in a definite, given period} will not pass away till all these things taken together take place {matthew 24: 33, 34} in verse 32 jesus gives an illustration to show us how to view the signs he has given us.
Bill,
The illustration about the fig tree was not of my own invention. It was a parable given by Jesus to serve as a comparison.
That is understood. My question had to do with the difference between the foliage of the tree and its fruit. You have made much about the necessity of waiting until the fruit of the fig tree is fully ripe. I simply do not recognize this metaphor. Is it one that Jesus actually used?
That child has not arrived as yet. The labor pains continue. I thought that I made very clear in my article why I believed we are the generation Jesus was discussing. This idea did not come from my own imagination. It came from the scriptures. IT was those living at the conclusion of the system of things, {the harvest season} when the crops are brought in that would finally see all of the sign fulfilled. Now if my reasoning is not correct please use your Bible to set me straight.Fair enough. I'll be glad to discuss it further once I fully understand what you have written thus far. How do you define the term “pass away?” What does it mean for "this generation" to "pass away?"
try this scenario for this generation!.
didnt jesus say when you see these signs, `all taken together, coming to pass, you may know `of a surety that he is near, at the very doors.
truly i tell you, this generation {the whole multitude of people living at the same time, in a definite, given period} will not pass away till all these things taken together take place {matthew 24: 33, 34} in verse 32 jesus gives an illustration to show us how to view the signs he has given us.
I usually regret donning the cap of millennialism even for the sake of conversation. Curiosity and a few glasses of wine have gotten the better of me tonight though and I’m going to go ahead and ask some of the things that came to mind while reading your post.
Fig Trees:
1. In regard to Matthew 24:32, Mark 13:28 & Luke 21:29, did Jesus actually mention the fruit of the tree at all, or is this your own contrivance?
2. In stating “There is needed yet a little time until the fruit can be eaten and summer is here in all its glory” you seem to attach a certain degree of importance to a protracted ripening period for the fruit. I’ve raised fig trees for years in a climate virtually identical to that of Palestine. In that type of climate, a mature tree will produce fruit in two crops, the first well before summer, usually around mid spring. Consequently, how can any special importance be attached to the ripening of the fruit?
Terms:
1. What is the basis for your definition of the term “generation”?
2. What to you understand the term “pass away” to mean?
3. If you substitute your term definitions for #1 and #2 above in lieu of the terms themselves as they appear in Matthew 24:34, do you still have a coherent sentence? Can you demonstrate?
this post is not going to make you feel good.
i'm rather sick myself for even telling you about this.. im also not trying to be alarmist and add to the ubiquitous stress and terror that we already see in the usa but there is something that is bothering me really bad and i wanted to put it out there to get some honest feedback on.. the recent biological warfare attacks in the usa have of course altered everyone about the real potential danger of terrorism and how we collectively are vulnerable.
when you take the time to really study biological warfare though, you can see that the current anthrax attacks are far more bark than bite and only a small number of people have actually died from these attacks.
You might enjoy reading Gina Kolata's _Flu - The Story of the Great Influenza Pandemic and the Search for the Virus That Caused It_
A good part of the book deals in simple laymen's terms with some of the many problems involved with extracting viable viral pathogens from cadavers and preserved human tissue samples.
one of the best histories of jehovah's witnesses is the book _a people for his name_ by timothy white, published by vantage press in 1967. the book had a very small printing and as far as i know was never republished.
at the time of its writing the author was a jw in good standing.
m. james penton gives white high marks in _apocalypse delayed_.
I found a copy in very fine condition at a local bookstore three years ago.
A piddling $495.00 and it could have been mine.....
i have to respond to the letter sent to the branches from the wtb&ts.. first: the explanation from mike pence is right on the money.
i am still an active jw who was at bethel for several yrs.
and in good standing with my local congregation.
First: The explanation from Mike Pence is right on the money.
Could you elaborate?
the society often makes a big fuss about so called pivitol dates.. i think these are 15 ce and 536 bce.. my question is do archeologists and historians see these also as pivitol dates from which to work or is it just the witnesses?
The short answer to your question is “no.”
539 B.C.E. and 14 C.E are “pivotal” in the sense that JW’s refer to them as such only inasmuch as they serve as anchor points for their Biblical chronology and prophetic speculation
question for opposers:.
if world events unfold pretty much as the wts predicts (or rather, as they interpret the bible to predict), and this culminates in armageddon, where jehovah makes himself known and publicly endorses jws.... .
how would you begin rationalize that?
Rationalize?
Some would likely refuse to see, wrapping themselves up in the selfsame blanket of denial that prevents most JW’s from intelligently dealing with the overwhelming evidence that the WTB&TS possesses neither a special position with God nor any more insight into what the future holds than that of any other person or group.
I may well be wrong, but your question smacks of one particularly offensive aspect of this denial in which “apostates” and “opposers” are cast as individuals who don’t want to do what is right and don’t want to serve God if in fact he does exist.
This is wrong. Most people, xJW, or not, would be thrilled if somewhere high above us there really is, in the words of James Russell Lowell “the great all-father who cares for us here below” and who has at long last, decided to once again reveal himself to his children.
Whether such an apocalypsis confirmed the world view of JW’s or not, how could it be rationalized away?
and at risk of further appalling and perhaps even traumatizing some here... i must say that i wonder.... do you think this is what hiroshima 'felt' like for those victimized by it?
oh, ummmm... sorry, that's right: "they"... "deserved" it.
forgive me.
…it seems to ME that the fact that they are BOTH... equally IMMORAL...
At the risk of sounding overly pedantic Shelby, you are generalizing yet again. The fact that both situations are reprehensible does not by itself make them equally so. Again, it is the varying circumstances under which life is lost that we as a society adjudge the level of culpability of those responsible.
If you can't or won't see that, or perhaps just flat don't agree with it, then I'll end my participation in this thread by simply wishing you a pleasent evening.
and at risk of further appalling and perhaps even traumatizing some here... i must say that i wonder.... do you think this is what hiroshima 'felt' like for those victimized by it?
oh, ummmm... sorry, that's right: "they"... "deserved" it.
forgive me.
How can anyone put a price on life, so we can judge which have merit.
We can’t. None of us can elevate the value of one human life over another. All life is precious. All human life is, or at least should be, equal. However that’s not quite the issue raised at the beginning of this thread. The circumstances under which life is taken or simply lost are not all equal, which is the whole reason why most judicial systems recognize different types of homicide and varying degrees of culpability relative thereto.
A peace-time attack on an unprepared and unsuspecting urban populace carefully tailored to maximize human death and human suffering has been directly equated with a war-time attack on an aggressor nation where the populace was forewarned by radio and by leaflets dropped from the air of what was going to happen.
Two reprehensible situations, but I still fail to see how they can be made to be moral equivalents without a great deal of generalization.
