Posts by TheMatrix

38

Cases involving minors

by TheMatrix in

jw
friends

many on this forum criticize elders as being incompetent.

i've know a few myself, but you must agree that there are also very good elders also.. well, here is a case and i would like to know what you would do if you were an elder.. a fourteen (14) year old male has sex with a twelve (12) year old female.

the female confesses to her parents and the parents report to the elders.

TheMatrix

No, Outlaw, it's not as easy as you think.

Elders are spiritual leaders. Yes, I agree, they must follow the law, that's why they contact the Legal Department when a minor is involved. The Society does not leave it up to their judgement to do what they think is right. No, they clear instructions to contact Legal immediately.

The laws are very different from state to state, as my example showed, Texas is one of the toughest states regarding child abuse. The Legal Department is an excelent resource for elders.

Once these laws are followed, now it is the elders job to help the victim spiritually.

I asked myself, what would I have done if Erica (from the Dateline show) would have come to me as an elder. These are the steps that I would have followed:

1. I would have hugged her.
2. I would pray with her so that Jehovah can give her peace of mind.
3. I would contact the congregation where the abuser attends, so that they can take care of it judicially.
4. I would have called the police on the abuser with her.
5. I would have also recommended that she speak to a professional to discuss how the abuse has affected her psychologically.
6. I would have organized regular shepherding visits for her and her family to comfort them and pray with them.

17

Disfellowshipping Child Abusers

by TheMatrix in

i have a question on the issue of child abusers within the organization.. i know that it should be reported to the authorities as it is a crime against human laws, but it is also a sin against jehovah so it must handled theocratically also.. my question is: should a child abuser be disfellowshipped from the christian congregation?

TheMatrix

Sure, if they are unrepentant, they should be df'd.

So, is there biblical guidance that says that a child abuser must be disfellowshipped?

38

Cases involving minors

by TheMatrix in

jw
friends

many on this forum criticize elders as being incompetent.

i've know a few myself, but you must agree that there are also very good elders also.. well, here is a case and i would like to know what you would do if you were an elder.. a fourteen (14) year old male has sex with a twelve (12) year old female.

the female confesses to her parents and the parents report to the elders.

TheMatrix

WRONG answer!

This is why it is important that the elders contact the Legal Department in all cases involving minors, so that the elders can get appropiate legal advice on the situation.

Let's take one of the toughest states as an example: Texas.

In Texas, legally, the fourteen (14) year old is a child abuser and Texas law says that the abuser (even if he/she is a minor) must be reported to the authorities by the elders. The state of Texas does not limit the law to only over-18 abusers.

See, it's not that easy being an elder. But the Society does provide proper guidance in complicated cases like the one I mentioned.

38

Cases involving minors

by TheMatrix in

jw
friends

many on this forum criticize elders as being incompetent.

i've know a few myself, but you must agree that there are also very good elders also.. well, here is a case and i would like to know what you would do if you were an elder.. a fourteen (14) year old male has sex with a twelve (12) year old female.

the female confesses to her parents and the parents report to the elders.

TheMatrix

Many on this forum criticize elders as being incompetent. I've know a few myself, but you must agree that there are also very good elders also.

Well, here is a case and I would like to know what you would do if you were an elder.

A fourteen (14) year old male has sex with a twelve (12) year old female. The female confesses to her parents and the parents report to the elders. The elders speak to the fourteen year old male and he also confesses to having intercourse with the twelve year old.

You are an elder, what would you do?

17

Disfellowshipping Child Abusers

by TheMatrix in

i have a question on the issue of child abusers within the organization.. i know that it should be reported to the authorities as it is a crime against human laws, but it is also a sin against jehovah so it must handled theocratically also.. my question is: should a child abuser be disfellowshipped from the christian congregation?

TheMatrix

I have a question on the issue of child abusers within the Organization.

I know that it should be reported to the authorities as it is a crime against human laws, but it is also a sin against Jehovah so it must handled theocratically also.

My question is: Should a child abuser be disfellowshipped from the Christian congregation?

65

Lies in the Dateline Show

by TheMatrix in

first lie: erica.

i dont believe erica lied about her abuse.

obviously it must be true, even mr. beliz confessed that he touched her inappropriately.

TheMatrix

Matrix hasn't posted again, to defend himself.

Really, Mulan, I don't have to defend myself. I know this is a sensitive issue with you guys. I knew my comments would create irate reactions and that many would insult me. That's o.k., your comments are all welcome. It shows who you really are.

For example look at this beautiful peace of writing:

The matrix.you are a Pediphile protecting TROLL!.Possibly a pediphile yourself.Back to the WBTS pig pen,Troll!!...OUTLAW

I can see, Mr. Outlaw put a lot of thinking into that post. He probably giggled like a little child as he typed it. You naughty little boy, outlaw. That's what apostates would lead you to believe that all 6 millions of Jehovah's Witnesses protect pedophiles. But we all know that's not true.

Mulan: I don't disagree with what you said about Ms. Anderson. I'm sure she held a "high" position as she would call it. I'm not disagreeing that she was a researcher. I am questioning that she had access to confidential files. Read my post again and you will see that.

26

What To Say To The Next JWs At Your Door?

by TR in

householder: hey, you are the people from that religion that hides pedophiles, aren't you?.

'hovah: whaaa?

hh: yeah, i saw "dateline" the other night on how 'hovahs protect sexual deviants.. 'hovah: well, you can't believe....... hh: no, no, i did some research after watching the show, now the wts is synonymous with corruption, deceit, slander, death, suffering, and the like.. 'hovah: well i uh, don't know about, uh, any problems, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh!.

TheMatrix

If a householder says to me : Hey, you are the people from that religion that hides pedophiles, aren't you?

I would respond:

ME: Actually that is not true. I hate pedophiles and their sick, perverted actions. Pedophilia is not just a sin, but a mental decease. Don't you agree?

HH: Yes, I agree.

ME: Do you know what Elders in the congregation do when someone accuses another of abusing them sexually?

HH: Nothing?

ME: Well our enemies would want you to believe that, but in reality the elders start an investigation into the allegations by the victim or victims. They form a judicial committee against the transgressor and in order to protect the congregation, they are disfellowshipped.

HH: Disfellowshipped? They don't get moved to another church?

ME: No, of course not, if they are disfellowshipped, no Witness will talk or have contact with that person.

HH: Well good, that takes care of it inside the church, but where do the authorities come in?

ME: They too are notified in the states that require such notification. For example in our state, it is law that these crimes be notified to the appropriate authorities, be it the police or child protective services.

HH: That's excellent, but what about the states that do not require it, I think the Witnesses and all other religions should be required to notify authorities of such crimes.

ME: I agree that state law should be changed to agree with those states that require such notification to the authorities. But see, the Witnesses are not breaking the law, they are following it. They balance Jehovah's law in the Bible and human law. But I encourage you to contact your state representative to encourage them to come up with legislation that would make it mandatory in your state for all child abusers to be turned into the authorities.

May I show you an Awake article that touches on how parents can protect their children from these sexual predators?

HH: I did not realize that your organization publishes such helpful information.

ME: They sure do, let me show you the article.

HH: Yes, I will take a copy and thank you for answering my questions. Although I don't agree with all of you beliefs, I respect your organization's effort in taking care of these problems.

ME: You're welcome, have a nice day.

65

Lies in the Dateline Show

by TheMatrix in

first lie: erica.

i dont believe erica lied about her abuse.

obviously it must be true, even mr. beliz confessed that he touched her inappropriately.

TheMatrix

First Lie: Erica

I don’t believe Erica lied about her abuse. Obviously it must be true, even Mr. Beliz confessed that he touched her inappropriately. Erica is a victim and justice, in a small way, was served when Mr. Beliz was sentenced to 11 ½ years of jail time. Why do I say that justice was served in a small way? Because Erica still has to live with the fact that she was abused. Those awful memories are still within her.

I feel very bad for her and what she went through, but it does not excuse what I believe was a lie on her part.

She said that when she informed an elder that she was going to the police that he said, “You better not, or else”. Now I’ve known many uneducated and unqualified elders in my life, but I still believe this was a product of Erica’s imagination. Do I believe he discouraged her from going to the police? Yes I believe he did, since the matter was being handled judicially in Mr. Beliz’s congregation. But did he threaten Erica by saying “or else”? Even the interviewer asked “or else what?”. And the interviewer put the words in Erica’s mouth by saying “or else what? You would get disfellowshipped?”

Now come on, you don’t just get disfellowshipped at the snap of a finger. There has to be an investigation, a judicial committee, and three elders deliberate during that committee, it’s not just the decision of one elder as Erica wants us to believe.

Second lie: Ms. Anderson

In the show, Ms. Anderson says that she was a researcher for the Society and that she was assigned the duty of investigating how many cases of child abuse there are and that she went through confidential files. I ask, how many sisters do you know that are allowed to go through confidential papers in the congregation. This does not happen in Bethel. In fact not even a regular elder that is a Bethelite would be allowed into those confidential files. Only Bethel Elders are allowed into the files. So either Ms. Anderson is lying or she went snooping around into the files and stole some of the information. Either way, it discredits Ms. Anderson and shows that she is a liar.

Third lie: Mr. Bowens

Mr. Bowens tells the reporter that the Organization is a “Pedophile Paradise”, even the reporter questions this by saying “Oh come on, a paradise?”. Mr. Bowens answers, and here is the key, he says “In my heart I believe that it is a Pedophile Paradise”. So there we have it, there is no proof, it is only in his heart that he believes this absurdity.

The truth is that sins such child abuse are handled theocratically and judicial committees handle the matter. The person can be disfellowshipped and the congregation is protected. Jehovah’s Witnesses follow the law and if the law says turn the abuser in, they do just that. There is no problem there. The problem is with the states that do not require that the abuser should be turned in. But that’s the states’ problem, not the Witnessses. If you want the Witnesses to report these cases in all 50 states of the United States, then start a petition in those states to make it a law to report all cases of child abuse.

Jehovah’s Witnesses are guided by Jehovah and his law and that’s the end of it.

You might get mad at my words here, but I’m just calling it as it is.

29

JR Browns live interview

by Pureheart in

hey guys,.

did not connect the way it was suppose to.

sorry.. pureheart

TheMatrix

I think he answered the questions adequately. You have to remember they were limited by time and could not widen the range of topics. I believe the interview was only 17 or 18 minutes. It is hard to have a debate in that amount of time. The interviewer did a good job in being open minded and asking questions to clarify the Witness view. J.R. Brown simply answered the questions presented to him by the callers. He did not volunteer further information, just went straight to the point.

59

JEHOVAH JUDGES ABUSIVE ELDERS

by You Know in

repeatedly, the scriptures admonish jehovahs people to stay in wakeful anticipation of gods judgments.

the not so obvious reason being that we don't know exactly how jehovah's judgments are going to go down.

however, the ordering of events once the judgment commences should not be in question.

TheMatrix

I think you are making a mistake, You Know, in your interpretation. I believe Jehovah has been refining his people through out the years, since 1919. Abusive elders have been removed and disciplined when necessary. Some have gotten away with their ill treatment of Jehovah's sheep and they will receive his judgement. Others were abusive at one time and through counseling from C.O. and other elders, have changed.

Most of the scripture in Isaiah does point to Christendom and their leaders. They will receive the wrath of Jehovah's judgment as they claim to represent him, but by their actions turn their backs on him. All of Christendom or Christianity originated from the religion that Jesus founded so they carry a heavy responsability for their actions. That is what Isaiah prophesied. Their destruction.