"If we want truth, everyone should be able to speak what they think without fear."
Edited by - thichi on 27 September 2002 11:24:34
Posts by ThiChi
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6DISAGREE...BUT DON'T BE DISAGREEABLE
by minimus intoo often we express an opinion and get slammed for it.
some new ones may post something that they feel and the result is that they are quickly and meanly censured.
some zealous adherents to a particular notion or ideal verbally smack any that do not support their cause.
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Aren't the elders supposed to visit df'd ones?
by buffy inmaybe someone can answer this.
i thought that elders made it a point to visit df'd ones like 1 a year to see if they've thought about coming back, etc.
don't get me wrong, i'm happy they haven't come to see me.
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ThiChi
Its funny, the Elders have lots of time to take advantage of all the "fun" aspects of being an Elder, Public Talks, Dinner invites, Circuit Assembly Parts, etc., however when it comes to the most important aspects of the position (serving, shepherding the flock) they are too busy!
Talk about being "...greedy for dishonest gain..."
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Update on HOAX LETTER elder---tee-hee
by ashitaka inwell, it looks like the elder who hoaxed the hall with the letter that you could read about here is screwed:.
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.aspx?id=37346&site=3.
it seems as though the hall is up in arms about the whole thing.
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ThiChi
This tactic was used quite a bit (in the 80s) in the South Gate, CA Congregation by our PO Paul Trask III (Grandson of Paul Trask I who is referenced in Ray Franz Book, COC) He would read a similar letter and then state at the end, "This can really happen one day, be on guard!."
Simon, you need a motto: "JWs, give me your poor, your Dfed, your DAed, your........... hehe
Edited by - thichi on 27 September 2002 10:57:48
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A Mormon chimes in
by John Corrill injohn corrill here from the ex-mormon board.
i've found your forum interesting.
mormons and ex-mormons struggle with many of the same things jw's do.
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ThiChi
Reading all your posts, I have come to the conclusion we all truly have one thing in common, we can see cult-ish bull shit/smoke coming a mile away! It truly feels good to see intelligent persons identifying and analyzing beliefs to a reasonable conclusion! I am very proud of you all!
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new TMS talks... i think i am going to....
by surferdude intell the overseer,.
a. take me off the list for talks, .
b. only give me the number 4 talks(develop your own talk).. .... how do you think that will go over?
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ThiChi
Mike is right! Bible reading should be the most important aspect of worship.....
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How did Stalin feel about Hitler?(Discovery ch.)
by sf in'obsessed'...according to the discovery channels documetary tonight entitled 'what really happened to hitler?'.
fascinating!.
supposedly, tonight's program reveals 'never before told' secrets.. skally
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ThiChi
It is a great work....I am looking forward to your reports!
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Do You Believe Any of "The Truth"?
by XBEHERE ini've been lurking for several months, its my first post here.
i am currently an active jw.
i have a very jw family so i have to be careful.
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ThiChi
Please read Brother Franz Book, In Search of Christian Freedom.....Door to Door, the Blood issue, the misuse of Disfellowshipping and much more is discussed from a biblical point of view...it will rock your JW world !
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Good Books?
by freedom96 inbesides the great franz books, anyone read anything else jw related that they can recommend?
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ThiChi
Indirectly, The Road Less Traveled By Dr. Peck touches on many JW "related" issues. I have no doubt Dr. Pick has had more than one JW on his couch. Franz cites Dr. Peck's book more than once in his book.........
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How do ex-JW's actually choose another religion?
by buffy inok, here's my question.
how do you go from being a jw to being a whatever (methodist, lutheran, etc.
) i've been invited to go to many churches with friends, but, i have no desire to ever set foot in any church.
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ThiChi
I know how you feel!
Please, please read Ray Franz' book "In search of Christian Freedom." Brother Franz helped me to understand that Christianity itself is the true faith, not any one religion. Ray goes into what true Christians must face when we make our camp outside "the city gates." You are now free to talk to any Christian about our faith, anywhere...knowing that you do not serve men and are free to come and go as you please! True Christian Freedom!
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WT NEWS..March for JW Victims
by ThiChi inwatchtower news september 24, 2002
100+ sex abuse victims to deliver hundreds of stuffed lambs to international headquarters of jehovah's witnesses
first ever march for jehovah's witness child rape victims worldwide
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ThiChi
Just a reminder: Watchtower News September 24, 2002
100+ Sex Abuse Victims to Deliver Hundreds of Stuffed Lambs to International Headquarters of Jehovah's Witnesses
First Ever March for Jehovah's Witness Child Rape Victims Worldwide
Elders Threaten Abuse Victims for Supporting silentlambs March
First Ever "Courage" Awards Presented on Front Steps
WHAT: In a protest march September 27 th at the Home office for Jehovah's Witnesses over one hundred abuse survivors will deliver hundreds of stuffed lambs for victims around the world as a symbol of innocence lost. Adults molested as kids by Jehovah's Witnesses and advocates will speak out and demand a church hearing to investigate possible criminal cover-ups by the denomination's leadership for Jehovah's Witnesses the Governing Body.
WHEN: Friday, September 27, WHO: William H. Bowen founder of "silentlambs", a recently established support group for Jehovah's Witness abuse victims will be conducting. The following groups will attend in support and speak, www.keep-our-children-safe.com Tina Alfano-- www.toysofhope.org Melissa Dokofsky -- www.savethechildren.dyns.net Kerry Strait-SNAP, Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests, David Cerulli - Child Protection Advocates, Dan Dugo -- along with several Jehovah's Witness abuse survivors.
WHERE: The march will start at and at the park and proceed down to Jehovah's Witness Home office at 25 at the front entrance.
DETAILS:
This is the first public event ever for child rape victims of Jehovah's Witnesses. According to William H. Bowen founder of silentlambs, "Elders have threatened abuse survivors across the country for speaking out about abuse. Several supporters have been threatened with expulsion if they attend. While leadership of Jehovah's Witnesses tries to silence victims with disfellowshipping , we are going to give awards to those who speak out for children on their front steps." Silentlambs is formerly requesting the church to establish a tribunal to prosecute the Governing Body for their crimes against children.
Contact:
Jean Kraus, local chapter director: 212-319-1195
Dan Dugo 646-641-6211 Child Protection Advocates
Tina Alfano: 516-978-4840 Keep Our Children Safe
David Cerulli 917-757-1791 SNAP
www.silentlambs.org, William H. Bowen: 270-527-5350, cell 270-559-5345
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http://ca.news.yahoo.com/020923/6/p4ni.html
Monday September 23
Closing arguments begin in Jehovah's Witness lawsuit; sexual coverup alleged By JAMES MCCARTEN
TORONTO (CP) - In 1988, a terrified victim of childhood sex abuse - raised from birth as a Jehovah's Witness - did as allegedly instructed by church elders and confronted the abuser: her father.
In so instructing Vicki Boer, those elders shattered the life, faith and family of a formerly devoted Witness and ought to be held to account, Boer's lawyer argued Monday. "She was almost like a turtle without a shell," Charles Mark told Court Justice Anne Molloy during day-long closing arguments in the civil case, which has been sitting for more than two weeks.
"Her life had been built around the church, and because of the way this has been handled, her life is a mess."
Church elders Brian Cairns, Steve Brown and John Didur , along with the Watchtower and Bible Tract Society of Canada, should never have forced Boer to confront her father about the abuse, Mark said.
Instead, they should have reported the abuse to the Children's Aid Society and encouraged Boer to get counselling as soon as possible.
"If that had been done, none of the confrontations would have had to take place."
It was in keeping with the tenets of their faith that the elders in Shelburne, Ont., decided to compel Boer to confront her father, Gower Palmer, even though it was plain the idea of such a meeting was abhorrent to her, Mark said.
"The descriptions . . .are those of a person who is on the edge of suicide. That's the degree to which it frightens her."
For two weeks, Molloy has been getting a crash course in the ways of the Witnesses as Boer squares off against the church that shaped her life for more than 20 years.
Boer, now 31, alleges the defendants failed to get her adequate treatment for the abuse she suffered between the ages of 11 and 14 in the family home in Shelburne, about 100 kilometres northwest of .
Rather than immediately notify the Children's Aid Society and allow Boer to seek counselling outside the church, she was required, according to Biblical principles, to confront her father in 1988 and allow him to repent his alleged sins, the suit alleges.
"She was brought up (believing) that the church was what mattered; the rest of the world was a hostile (place) with which she should have no contact," Mark said Monday.
"She accepted this, as it had been instilled in her from youth."
But it was apparent throughout the day that Molloy was struggling with Mark's interpretation of the law.
"It's not like this was a professional disciplinary body," she said at one point about the three-member "judicial committee" that determined Palmer's punishment in 1989.
"This is to do with issues of spirituality; how does that differ from someone going to a confessional in a church and receiving absolution?"
Then later in the day, in response to Mark's suggestion that despite having free will, Boer had to follow the counsel of the elders: "You can always choose to say, 'I don't want this religion anymore,'" Molloy said.
"That is also an expression of free will, and one that, evidently, some people do choose."
Eventually, some six weeks after the allegations first surfaced, the case was reported to Children's Aid and the police, although no charges ever ensued.
Palmer, 58, continues to live in Shelburne.
The defendants, meanwhile, have argued strenuously that they never prevented Boer from seeking help or forced her to confront her father.
Their lawyers, expected to begin their final arguments Tuesday, have suggested that it was the abuse, not the ways of her church, that sent Boer down a rocky path in her adult life, one rife with job insecurity, sexual dalliances and emotional turmoil.
While victims of sexual abuse normally aren't identified in public, Boer has agreed to allow her name to be publicized as part of her effort to promote what she alleges in abuse within the confines of the church's congregations.
As part of their beliefs in a strict interpretation of Bible teachings, Jehovah's Witnesses reject anything political or "worldly" that distracts from their focus on Christ and the second coming, which they consider imminent.
Anyone who runs afoul of the religion's strictest tenets will find themselves excommunicated, often to such an extent that they're shunned by their own family.
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