Spec,
History is full of "times of trouble". Do you know how many people in history have been called the anti-christ? I believe it's only human nature to think we're "special" and living in a "special" period of time.
thinker
thinker
JoinedPosts by thinker
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27
The writing is on the wall the pale horse is here.
by spectromize inwhen you look at the news headlines concerning the many out of control pestilences, i can't help but think of the scripture in revelation chapter 6 verse 8, what do you all think about this subject?
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thinker
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87
Heresy of the Month
by thinker inheresy of the month (from a website).
don't you hate it when someone you know comes up with some new thing that you have never heard about?
you sit there in apparent ignorance as they pontificate about the proofs and merits of some idea so far beyond common knowledge that it can only be revealed by people of exceptional enlightenment such as they.
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thinker
As you may know, Fred Hall has started a new forum for anti-apostates. I felt it was only fitting that the Leaning Tower Bath and Shower Society have a forum too. Heres the link. Don't forget to book mark.
http://www.coolboard.com/boardshow.cfm?mb=69813542659882Stay clean, have fun and go lean!
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87
Heresy of the Month
by thinker inheresy of the month (from a website).
don't you hate it when someone you know comes up with some new thing that you have never heard about?
you sit there in apparent ignorance as they pontificate about the proofs and merits of some idea so far beyond common knowledge that it can only be revealed by people of exceptional enlightenment such as they.
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thinker
Don't believe her larc. It's the post-baptimals that are TW's main concern.
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Who's to blame?
by ozziepost inwhen viv mouritz , former branch coordinator in australia, addressed the special meeting of sydney and surrounding area congregations at the superdome last weekend, he blamed the young witnesses who were leaving "the truth" for the drop in numbers in australia.. at the service meeting this week in one sydney congregation it was announced by a bethel elder that the elders have been told (as if they didn't know already!
) that 2,000 have left "the truth" in the past two years in australia.
this typical congregation of 120 publishers has lost 19 inactive since 1999.. the march 2001 issue of kingdom ministry (australian edition) gives the number of publishers for december as 58,426, pioneers 3,315 and 19 baptized.. in dec '98 there were 58,706 pubs,and in dec '99 there were 58,000.. with 1,600-1,800 being baptized each year, there is indeeed a 2,000 shortfall.. so, who's to blame?
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thinker
I have another theory. It's seems like there is an organized effort to almost eliminate the "inactives". How many inactives on this board, from all over the place; have talked about recent "visits" and other forms of pressure? Could it be the Society is trying to pull them back in, and instead; are ending up pushing their own numbers down?
Clearly, the GB knows that "inactive" can be used like a loophole to maintain contact with family and friends (an open channel for "outside" information). With the wealth of info. online, they could see this as a threat. -
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Who Has Exclusive Rights?
by RR ini'm getting a kick on the wol board, there is a post there that's too funny.. apparently one of the witnesses went on a return visit with an elder and the guy they came to visit was "un-witnessable.
well, apparently he had the same beliefs as they did, so how do you witness to someone who agrees with you?
so the frame of thought from the replies is pretty much, if he has some truths, he must be an apostate, or perhaps he studied one of our publication.
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thinker
RR,
Is it possible theres more to this story than you're telling us?
The post you linked to sounded "conversationally" familar. One thing in particular set off my memory:
"enuff said!"Posted: Jan 5, 2001 5:42:37 PM by RR
enuff said!Then from WOL:
N E W B I E
I plan on living forever. So far, so good.Posts: 10
Member since: Jan 2001 posted February 22, 2001 11:56 AM
Yes it is clear to YOU, however even the FDS and the Scripture say only Jehovah can read the hearts! enuff said!If it's really you, let us know. I think it's hilarious!
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Family Ties
by somebody inanother lie told to the media/public on the jw-medai site.. do you shun former members?.
those who simply cease to be involved in the faith are not shunned.
in compliance with the scriptures, however, members can be expelled for serious unchristian conduct, such as stealing, drunkenness, or adultery, if they do not repent and cease such actions.
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thinker
We would not refuse to treat one as a brother because he did not believe the Society is the Lord's channel.
If others see it in a different way, that is their privilege. There should be full liberty of conscience. WT April 1, 1920, p. 100, 101.Being limited by the laws of the worldly nation in which we live and also by the laws of God through Jesus Christ, we can take action against apostates only to a certain extent, that is, consistent with both sets of laws. The law of the land and God's law through Christ forbid us to kill apostates, even though they be members of our own flesh-and-blood family relationship. However, God's law requires us to recognize their being disfellowshiped from his congregation, and this despite the fact that the law of the land in which we live requires us under some natural obligation to live with and have dealings with such apostates under the same roof.
God's law does not allow a marriage partner to dismiss his mate because his mate becomes disfellowshiped or apostatizes. Neither will the law of the land in most cases allow a divorce to be granted on such grounds. The faithful believer and the apostate or disfellowshiped mate must legally continue to live together and render proper marriage dues one to the other. A father may not legally dismiss his minor child from his household because of apostasy or disfellowshiping, and a minor child or children may not abandon their father or their mother just because he becomes unfaithful to God and his theocratic organization. The parent must by laws of God and of man fulfill his parental obligations to the child or children as long as they are dependent minors, and the child or children must render filial submission to the parent as long as legally underage or as long as being without parental consent to depart from the home. Of course, if the children are of age, then there can be a departing and breaking of family ties in a physical way, because the spiritual ties have already snapped.
If children are of age and continue to associate with a disfellowshiped parent because of receiving material support from him or her, then they must consider how far their spiritual interests are being endangered by continuing under this unequal arrangement, and whether they can arrange to support themselves, living apart from the fallen-away parent. Their continuing to receive material support should not make them compromise so as to ignore the disfellowshiped state of the parent. If, because of acting according to the disfellowship order of the company of God's people, they become threatened with a withdrawal of the parental support, then they must be willing to take such consequences.
Satan's influence through the disfellowshiped member of the family will be to cause the other member or members of the family who are in the truth to join the disfellowshiped member in his course or in his position toward God's organization. To do this would be disastrous, and so the faithful family member must recognize and conform to the disfellowship order. How would or could this be done while living under the same roof or in personal, physical contact daily with the disfellowshiped? In this way: By refusing to have religious relationship with the disfellowshiped.
The marriage partner would render the marriage dues according to the law of the land and in due payment for all material benefits bestowed and accepted. But to have religious communion with the disfellowshiped person-no, there would be none of that! The faithful marriage partner would not discuss religion with the apostate or disfellowshiped and would not accompany that one to his (or her) place of religious association and participate in the meetings with that one. As Jesus said: "If he does not listen even to the congregation [which was obliged to disfellowship him], let him be to you just as a man of the nations and as a tax collector [to Jehovah's sanctified nation]." (Matt. 18:17, NW) Hurt to such one would not be authorized, but there would be no spiritual or religious fellowshiping.
The same rule would apply to those who are in the relation of parent and child or of child and parent. What natural obligation falls upon them according to man's law and God's law the faithful parent or the faithful child will comply with. But as for rendering more than that and having religious fellowship with such one in violation of the congregation's disfellowship order-no, none of that for the faithful one! If the faithful suffers in some material or other way for the faithful adherence to theocratic law, then he must accept this as suffering for righteousness' sake.
The purpose of observing the disfellowship order is to make the disfellowshiped one realize the error of his way and to shame him, if possible, so that he may be recovered, and also to safeguard your own salvation to life in the new world in vindication of God. (2 Thess. 3:14, 15; Titus 2:8) Because of being in close, indissoluble natural family ties and being of the same household under the one roof you may have to eat material food and live physically with that one at home, in which case 1 Corinthians 5:9-11 and 2 John 10 could not apply; but do not defeat the purpose of the congregation's disfellowship order by eating spiritual or religious food with such one or receiving such one favorably in a religious way and bidding him farewell with a wish for his prosperity in his apostate course.
*** Nov 15, 1952 Watchtower ***
Questions from Readers"Religion is the worship and service of the Devil and his associate demons .. Religion is the chief means that puts fear into the minds of the people and leads them into the Devil's snare .. Truly then, as stated, 'religion is a snare and a racket,' employed to collect money from them under false representations." {WT Jan 15 1940 29}
(they finally got one right !!!) -
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Donation agreement ?
by somebody ini know that the wbts sided with jimmy swaggart in a court case and jimmy swaggart lost.
i also know that that is why ,and when, the wbts came up with the infamous "donation agreement", but never told it's loyal followers the truth about it.. does anyone know the address of the site that has the court records on it?.
also...to lurkernomore,.
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thinker
Somebody,
BTW, Swaggert lost. Religious books that are SOLD are subject to sales tax. -
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Strange WT contradictions and backpeddling
by TR inbeth sarim:.
beth sarim was built in 1929 as a proof that the resurrection would soon take place.
(salvation, p. 311).
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thinker
I read somewhere that it's been sold. I guess the "faithful men of old" will have to shack-up in Brooklyn.
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New Blood Policy or A Lie ?
by thinker in{sworn testimony submitted by the society in evidence before the european human rights commission jul 3 1997}.
the applicant association (watchtower society) was represented by mm.
alain garay, philippe.
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thinker
{Sworn testimony submitted by the Society in evidence before the European Human Rights Commission Jul 3 1997}
The applicant association (Watchtower Society) was represented by MM. Alain Garay, Philippe
Goni and Michel de Guillenchmidt, avocats à la Cour, Paris, France, and
by Mr. Lioubomir Kioutchokov, founding member of the applicant
association.
In respect of the refusal of blood transfusion, the applicant (Watchtower Society) association submits that while this is part of the religious doctrine
of Jehovah's Witnesses, its acceptance depends on the personal choice
of the individual concerned. There are no religious sanctions for a
Jehovah's Witness who chooses to accept blood transfusion. Therefore,
the fact that the religious doctrine of Jehovah's Witnesses is against
blood transfusion cannot amount to a threat to "public health", every
individual being free in his or her choice.My Question:
Is this?
1) An outright lie (perjury since it was sworn testimony)by a designated Watchtower representative
2) A new policy just for Bulgarian JW's
3) A new policy for ALL JW's -
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A look into the devil's workshop
by spectromize innow we all know for you who have attended meetings at the kingdom hall and heard speakers from the platform give us bible verses and telling us that the ruler of this world is the devil of which i firmly believe due to the fact that this world is completely warped.. .
doesn't it strike you funny to see that satan who makes the rules for his system can't keep them and tries to manipulate rules and regulations always in his favor and that of his seed.. .
#1 example- did you know that according to the bible that satan's agents keep transforming themselves into agents of light.
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thinker
Dear Spec,
You stated:No one ever asked you to give blind devotion to a group of men. You are getting your loyalties confused.
Please give me your interpretations of the following quotes:WT 10/01/67 pg. 590
"...Jehovah poured out his spirit upon them and assigned them the responsibility of serving as his sole visible channel, through whom alone spiritual instruction was to come. Those who recognize Jehovah's visible theocratic organization, therefore, must recognize and accept this appointment of the "faithful and discreet slave" and be submissive to it."*** w52 2/1 80 Jehovah's Theocratic Organization Today ***
12 Now some may ask, Should we accept as from the Lord and true the food provided through the discreet slave, or should we withhold acceptance until we have proved it for ourselves? If we have gained our present understanding of the Bible by feeding at the table set by the slave, if we have been thereby freed from false doctrines and built up in the clean and undefiled worship of God and given a new world hope, we should have some confidence in the slave’s provisions. After being nourished to our present spiritual strength and maturity, do we suddenly become smarter than our former provider and forsake the enlightening guidance of the organization that mothered us? “Forsake not the law of thy mother.” (Prov. 6:20-23) And if the heavenly Father would not give a stone or serpent or scorpion to a child who asked for bread or fish or an egg from him, are we to take the spiritual food he provides through the slave into our hands as if we were going to be bruised by a stone or bitten by a serpent or stung by a scorpion? (Matt. 7:7-11; Luke 11:9-13, NW) Are we to be doubtful and suspicious about each new provision? “He who doubts is like a wave of the sea driven by the wind and blown about. In fact, let not that man suppose that he will receive anything from Jehovah.” (Jas. 1:6, 7, NW) Even the Beroeans first received Paul’s preaching “with the greatest readiness of mind”, and then went to “carefully examining the Scriptures daily as to whether these things were so”. (Acts 17:11, NW) This was the first real contact the Beroeans had with Paul’s preaching, yet they received it readily and then studied the Scriptural support for themselves. How much more readily we can receive the slave’s provisions with confidence, since, unlike the Beroeans, we have much past experience with the precious provisions from the slave.
thinker