Posts by Thirdson

60

Ridiculous trips to the 'back room'

by Esmeralda in

jw
friends

the posts in the elders meeting thread got me thinking about this, so i've spun it off for into another thread.. were you ever 'counseled' because "some" in the congregation were disturbed by things you said/did/listened to/watched?.

here is just some of the stupid stuff that the elders brought me in on.

though they were usually handled through shepherding calls, not in the back room at the kh.. 1: because i decided to change my first and middle names.

Thirdson

Here's another thought on music and elder types. During an informal part of an elders meeting the PO was decrying pop music and said that things went down hill from the Beatles onwards. He blamed all the "guitar and drum bands" (his words) for all the social ills effecting the world. I replied that the decadence of today's society can actually be traced back to the "big band sound" of the 40's. He shut-up and I didn't say anymore. I just made it up but I knew his music taste.

Thirdson

'To avoid criticism, say nothing, do nothing, be nothing'

60

Ridiculous trips to the 'back room'

by Esmeralda in

jw
friends

the posts in the elders meeting thread got me thinking about this, so i've spun it off for into another thread.. were you ever 'counseled' because "some" in the congregation were disturbed by things you said/did/listened to/watched?.

here is just some of the stupid stuff that the elders brought me in on.

though they were usually handled through shepherding calls, not in the back room at the kh.. 1: because i decided to change my first and middle names.

Thirdson

It's thread like this that remind why I don't belong anymore. Petty elders and their pet peeves who lord it over the congregation. One case like any example here is laughable, but these things go on week in week out. And all the lurkers here know it now...these men aren't appointed by holy spirit.

Here's my thought on chess and why I guess I didn't stay an elder very long. I once used chess pieces as an illustration in a service meeting item. I asked who liked to play chess. A few newbies raised their hands. "I must be one of the few," I replied. I knew that some still harbored ideas of chess being a war game and not for "Christians". Plenty of others wouldn't own up for fear of being judged. I never got dragged in the backroom but by then I was not often challenged.

The thing with the backrooms in the last hall I was in (typical quick-build design) was that they had large windows. The one being counseled was on view and it was obvious what was going on. It just leads to more gossip and divions bewteen the spiritually strong (not caught yet) the the weak (the unfortunate with problems or twitted on by their so-called brother or sister who self-righteously ran to the elders with some lame tale). Lots of that goes on, I knew. I guess that's the other reason I didn't stay an elder for long.

Thirdson

'To avoid criticism, say nothing, do nothing, be nothing'

46

POLL: Occupations

by Angst in

jw
friends

as a witness what occupation did/do you hold?.

i was speaking with a friend of mine that is a former witness and we remarked about how many of us have worked in some sort of janitorial work.

Thirdson

I attended college, worked as a production engineer in an aircraft components factory and later went into technical services/service management for a machine tool company. In 1991 while a newly appointed elder I quit my job, took a big cut in salary and retrained as a programmer with a s/w company. I quit being an elder and shortly afterwards accepted a job transfer to a regional office in the US. I worked as a analyst/programmer/consultant for the company before joining a former client a year ago. I'm now a project leader in the MIS department.

I ignored most of the stuff from the WTS on education and work. I did spend most of that time feeling guilty and tried to appease the guilt by aux pioneering once a year. Life is so much better now.

Thirdson

'To avoid criticism, say nothing, do nothing, be nothing'

18

Question on Teaching UN is Beast to recruits?

by hawkaw in

question to you intelligent jws and exjws.. does the wt, through its knowledge book or whatever, make sure new recruits know who the scarlet coloured wild beast is or disgusting thing is (ie, the un), who is part of the great harlot etc before becoming full blown jws?.

like should new recruits know this off by heart thanks to the rote teaching?.

hawk

Thirdson

Hawkaw,

As others have commented, the JW "study" will only be told the basics. However, they will be encouraged to read the "deeper" books including the prophetic commentaries. Also, during the course of a Bible study the student will be told more than is written in the text.

A search of the WTS website shows these statements as typical of the material that prospective JWs will be reading:

7. Jesus' disciples must be no part of this wicked world. (John 17:16) They do not get involved in the world's political affairs and social controversies. They avoid the harmful conduct, practices, and attitudes that are common in the world. (James 1:27; 4:4) Can you identify a religious group in your community that has these marks of true Christianity?

This article can be found at:
( http://www.watchtower.org/library/rq/article_13.htm

Also, regarding the UN and the League of Nations the WTS states this on the Official Website of Jehovah's Witnesses:

Because our first parents rejected God's law, human government came under the control of Satan. Appropriately the Bible calls Satan "the god of this system of things." (2 Corinthians 4:4) The wars, the cruelties, the corruption, and the instability of man's governments prove that he is. The League of Nations and the United Nations have failed to bring peace out of the confusion. Mankind cries out for a government of peace.

Full reference can be found here:
( http://www.watchtower.org/library/lmn/article_10.htm

So while the WTS does not on its public sites state that the UN is the image of the wild beast of Revelaton they state that being involved with the social issues of this world (human rights being a social issue) are harmful practices and the UN is a failure. This is not good PR for the UN and the WTS is suppose to use its media outlets to support the ideals of United Nations Org. Do they know about this?

Thirdson

'To avoid criticism, say nothing, do nothing, be nothing'

8

UN Declaration of Rights and the WTS!

by ISP in

jw
friends

check out the un charter...a charter which the wts will quote when it suits them, to protect their business interests etc...and at the same time deny many of the charters basic rights to its followers.

article 1.. all human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.

they are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.. except 'worldly' people and those df'd...and anyone who doesn't agree with the wts!.

Thirdson

ISP,

Thanks for this post it is very informative and good to consider since the WTS claims to be a champion of human rights.

A couple of years ago the Awake had an article about human rights and I believe (though I have not read it) that is was very favorable towards the UN. (If anyone has a copy of this would they post some quotes from it).

When I had a big conflict with my parents over my leaving the WTS I questioned my mother about human rights and the WTS support of the UN on this issue.

She agreed that the WTS was a supporter of human rights and she fully accepted the basic human rights of being treated with dignity and respect and the right to freedom of worship and the freedom to change religion. On that basis I informed her that she could not treat me any different (e.g. no shunning) because I no longer believed in the WTS version of religion. Shunning would violate my right to be treated with respect and dignity and DA'ing or DFing could not be applied to me simply because I chose beliefs different to what the WTS teaches.

It helped in my relationship with my parents. I don't know what affect it has had when they come across other people they know who have left the WTS. Time will tell.

Thirdson

'To avoid criticism, say nothing, do nothing, be nothing'

14

Pay Attention To Yourselves and to All The Flock

by Kent in

jw
friends

you can find pay attention to yourselves and to all the flock in many languages on the watchtower observer, such as english, spanish, polish, portuguese, french, finnish and german.

but there is also lots of other sites that carry the book.. there is a new "pay attention to yourselves and to all the flock" coming soon, and i hope to be able to bring the "new light" in a short while.

http://www.kki.net.pl/~ksk3/ (polish).

Thirdson

SammyJo,

Are you sure that there is not some confusion over which book is the secret elder manual?

The first semi-exclusive book is the "organization" book which is given to all approved publishers considering baptism. This book is not available to the public. The elders approve the issuing of this book but everyone has a copy, children, men and women and ex-JWs.

The "flock" book is the book only available to elders and the PO keeps these for handing out to new elders only. The instructions for this book is it is meant for elders eyes only and their wives are not to see it. When an elder is removed, resigns or dies the book is supposed to be returned to the PO. However, thanks to the Internet many people, children, men and women and ex-JWs have seen a copy of it.

People turning a shade of beetroot on mention of the book are probably guilty of reading the book in secret.

Thirdson

'To avoid criticism, say nothing, do nothing, be nothing'

32

What is going ON?

by Aintthatcute in

jw
friends

first of all: i am new and have been lurking for about 2 weeks.

whoow!

glad i got that out of the way.. something that really bothers me is: when they say that the gb all the way down, elders, and ministerial servents are "appointed" by jehovah, and are deserving of "double honor".

Thirdson

Alan correctly explained how elders are appointed by holy spirit yet are not. This is the question from the Watchtower Jan 15, 2001 page 13 paragraph 10:

"How is it that the holy spirit plays a pivotal role in theocratic appointments?"

From the paragraph you JWs should have highlighted with your dayglow yellow marker or underlined in red:

"First of all, the record that sets out the requirements for spiritual oversight was inspired by the holy spirit."

The paragraph started with "first of all" but no second of third reason is ever mentioned.

Paragraph 12 the question is "Who may be said to be apointed by holy spirit?"

Your underlined Watchtower should say "Those meeting the Scriptural requirements at the time of their appointment as overseers or ministerial servants may thus be said to have been appointed by holy spirit." (Bold mine)

So there you have it. Meet the the requirements of the WTS interpretation of the Bible's requirements which is inspired by the holy spirit and you can say elders are "said to be appointed by holy spirit" The Watchtower doesn't say that they actually are appointed by holy spirit.

Lots or clever wording...it would have gone over the heads of 99.9% of JWs sat at the KH that day.

Thirdson

'To avoid criticism, say nothing, do nothing, be nothing'

24

GOD BLESS AMERICA!

by unclebruce in

jw
friends

god bless america!.

this saying has annoyed the crap outta me for years with it's jingoistic myopia and presumptious aire.

(it presumes too much about god, extolling america's apparent inate goodness.

Thirdson

God Bless Uncle Bruce,

or at least God say "Good on ya mate!"

Welcome back, we've missed you. Thanks for your warm words.

Thirdson

'To avoid criticism, say nothing, do nothing, be nothing'

17

2014

by AvailableLight in

jw
friends

from addendum to crisis of conscience (1995).

for chapter 12. available http://www.freeminds.org/history/franz_ad.htm.

what then is the significant difference?

Thirdson

nicolaou,

You beat me to it

Thirdson

'To avoid criticism, say nothing, do nothing, be nothing'

17

2014

by AvailableLight in

jw
friends

from addendum to crisis of conscience (1995).

for chapter 12. available http://www.freeminds.org/history/franz_ad.htm.

what then is the significant difference?

Thirdson

The further dates pass into history the less important they are. 1914 has long been said (at least by the WTS) to be a major turning point in human history.

In 2014, a century later, the Great War it will seem as distant as the American Civil does to us today. Events may prove that September 11, 2001 is an equally important turning point for humankind (good or bad). With few people around to even remember the year of 1914 it loses its apeal and 100 years in anybody's book is a long time for a "short time" remaining.

Thirdson

'To avoid criticism, say nothing, do nothing, be nothing'