Saintbertholdt

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Posts by Saintbertholdt

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  25

  Did you know that President Jimmy Carter used to be a Jehovah's Witness?

  by AndersonsInfo in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  http://www.christianpost.com/news/jimmy-carter-says-jesus-would-not-support-abortion-revealing-only-conflict-between-his-politics-and-christian-faith-141881/.

  carter said that as a young man he used to be a jehovah's witness before he was a baptist christian.. .

  "it's hard to grow up with such a foundational system and just let it go.

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  Saintbertholdt

  Hi Blondie,

  "...and he attended the home meetings when he was young. But he ;never was baptized or identified himself as a jw."

  That certainly is true. As you probably know he left home for West Point when he was 20. He actually hid his Bible Student background and many biographers only refer to the River Brethren connection. While growing up his parents held weekly Bible student meetings at their home and even had a big chart in the living room with a Pyramid with Russell's timeline. The reason why Eisenhower never wanted to acknowledge his Bible Student background was obvious: The pacifism of the Jehovah's Witnesses, which would have caused him problems in his military and political career. Interestingly enough he was not a member of any church until he was 60 years old when he finally joined the Presbyterian church.
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  25

  Did you know that President Jimmy Carter used to be a Jehovah's Witness?

  by AndersonsInfo in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  http://www.christianpost.com/news/jimmy-carter-says-jesus-would-not-support-abortion-revealing-only-conflict-between-his-politics-and-christian-faith-141881/.

  carter said that as a young man he used to be a jehovah's witness before he was a baptist christian.. .

  "it's hard to grow up with such a foundational system and just let it go.

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  Saintbertholdt

  Hi JWdaughter,

  "A lot of religiously based writing tends to ignore facts in favor of writing uplifting and encouraging things to promote their faith-based interests."

  There is one western religious news organization which I actually respect very much:

  THE CHRISTIAN SCIENCE MONITOR

  I say this as an atheist. They just do good reporting.
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  10

  If you "chose" this religion, as I did, do you remember the moment you "bought" the religion?

  by Muddy Waters in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  if you "chose" this religion, as i did, do you remember the moment you "bought", or believed, the religion?.

  for me, it was during one of my studies with a knowledgeable, lovely pioneer sister who looked like her life was so perfect and wonderful.

  i was coming out of a terrible situation in my life, very vulnerable, being abandoned by a husband during my pregnancy and with other little children to look after too.

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  Saintbertholdt

  I was brought up with the religion so I guess there was never 'that' moment.

  I can tell my mothers story though:

  My grandmother was a devoted catholic and she had gotten a divorce because of my grandfather's infidelity. According to the Catholic church at that time, divorce was a mortal sin and so she would burn in hell for eternity. My mother could not understand how her mother, who had given everything to raise her children and who was such a gentle soul would end up in hell. (Later on the Catholic church would popularize special dispensation and so my grandma would no longer be going to hell by necessity.)

  One day my eldest brother was playing in the driveway. At that time he was still a toddler and I was still a distant future accident waiting to happen. While looking out the kitchen window my mother noticed he was coloring something in with a crayon. My mother went outside and saw that it was a book. She thought it looked pretty expensive and so she took the book away (probably to his woeful disgust). Turns out it was Witness literature. She started to read and lo and behold she stumbled upon a section on the fate and state of the dead. She was instantly sold on the religion because now there was a way to solve my grandmother's eternal damnation dilemma.

  Since that fateful incident the 'Truth' has dominated our family history to this very day.
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  25

  Did you know that President Jimmy Carter used to be a Jehovah's Witness?

  by AndersonsInfo in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  http://www.christianpost.com/news/jimmy-carter-says-jesus-would-not-support-abortion-revealing-only-conflict-between-his-politics-and-christian-faith-141881/.

  carter said that as a young man he used to be a jehovah's witness before he was a baptist christian.. .

  "it's hard to grow up with such a foundational system and just let it go.

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  Saintbertholdt

  Aw shucks!
• 
  160

  Say Something Jehovah's Witnessy........

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i know there's no such word as "witnessy" but this can be a fun thread.

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  Saintbertholdt

  [insert whatever cockamamie rule]..."is just another loving provision from Jehovah"

  In private: "...there was so much spiritual food at the DC I think I have spiritual indigestion."
• 
  25

  Did you know that President Jimmy Carter used to be a Jehovah's Witness?

  by AndersonsInfo in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  http://www.christianpost.com/news/jimmy-carter-says-jesus-would-not-support-abortion-revealing-only-conflict-between-his-politics-and-christian-faith-141881/.

  carter said that as a young man he used to be a jehovah's witness before he was a baptist christian.. .

  "it's hard to grow up with such a foundational system and just let it go.

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  Saintbertholdt

  Hi there,

  That is mighty interesting. Its the second US president in the 20th century with a JW backround. (The other being Eisenhower)

  I have always liked Jimmy Carter, doesn't matter what people say about him (usually lame duck). I had a period of being a Baptist as well, so we got two religions in common :)
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  12

  How do jw's explain vestigial organs in humans?

  by purrpurr in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i only recently became aware of cases of people being born with tails.

  having looked into it this is a evolutionary leftover and we have many other examples within each one of us like the appendix, wisdom teeth, and muscles to move the ears.

  plus many more, this seems to me to prove evolution completely.

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  Saintbertholdt

  I don't know about vestigial organs, but here's something I found interesting:

  Its from the book 'The Greatest Show on Earth' by Richard Dawkins:

  The vas deferens is the pipe that carries sperm from the testis to the penis. The most direct

  route is the fictitious one shown on the left-hand side of the diagram opposite. The actual route taken by

  the vas deferens is shown on the right of the diagram. It takes a ridiculous detour around the ureter, the

  pipe that carries urine from the kidney to the bladder. If this were designed, nobody could seriously deny

  that the designer had made a bad error. But, just as with the recurrent laryngeal nerve, all becomes clear

  when we look at evolutionary history. The likely original position of the testes is shown in dotted lines.

  When, in the evolution of mammals, the testes descended to their present position in the scrotum (for

  reasons that are unclear, but are often thought to be associated with temperature), the vas deferens

  unfortunately got hooked the wrong way over the ureter. Rather than reroute the pipe, as any sensible

  engineer would have done, evolution simply kept on lengthening it – once again, the marginal cost of

  each slight increase in length of detour would have been small. Yet again, it is a beautiful example of an

  initial mistake compensated for in a post hoc fashion, rather than being properly corrected back on the

  drawing board. Examples like this must surely undermine the position of those who hanker after

  ‘intelligent design’.

  
  
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  35

  Where did Jesus get the Idea of an After-life in Heaven?

  by John Aquila in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the ancient jews did not believe in an after-life as far as i can tell, correct me if i'm wrong.

  the watchtower says yes.

  they say all the prophets believed in a paradise earth..

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  Saintbertholdt

  Hi there John Aquila,

  My two cents.

  How about this: What if its a natural part of the evolution of religion?

  What do I mean by this? Well according to Prof. Bob Briar the ancient Egyptians only believed that the Pharaoh's had a 'ba' (The personal characteristics that remain after the individual dies that ascends to the heavens). Everyone had a 'ka' or life force. Later on the religion evolved that lower royals also had a 'ba'. Later tradesmen and professionals claimed the same and then finally every-man. This can be seen because in early dynasty's only the Pharaoh's had pyramid tombs, later lower royals and professionals and so on (The pyramids grow smaller in size too :)) The liberalization of the culture over time caused a view of equality in the afterlife (Not that the slave is equal to the Pharaoh in the afterlife but that he actually gets to have one) . Also see: Ian Shaw - The Oxford History of Ancient Egypt (2000) p180-181 Callender, Gae, "The Middle Kingdom"

  What I'm getting at is that Christianity represents an evolution of the Jewish tradition. There are two mentions in the Old Testament that elude to possible heavenly ascents: Elijah and Enoch. Both have special status: One as a pre-flood patriarch and the other a profit. Perhaps the germ of an idea. Heaven originally viewed as an exception for the exceptional or the very special but later becomes a destination for all. Perhaps it could be viewed as an equalizer.

  The Gospels I view as the evolution of a philosophy which emerges out of the Jewish culture. Not the work of just the four gospel writers, but the work of a rebellious component of the Jewish community creating a new liberal tradition. The sayings of Jesus were being passed around very early and that those sayings also multiplied and evolved as can be seen in the Gospel of Thomas (which may be the oldest recorded sayings of Jesus 40 ce or much much later140 ce). Whats important is not the dating of Thomas but that sayings of Jesus on their own were being passed around, and when combined with anecdotes about Jesus or persons confused with Jesus became the basis of the four narratives. Mark is the oldest and may be based on Thomas. Matthew and Luke borrow from Mark and John is the odd one out who adds totally different ideas (like the Deity of Christ)

  
  

  Heaven liberalizes the Jewish community. The class system is effectively destroyed in the afterlife through the Gospels (I'm ignoring anything beyond the gospels for the sake of argument). The community who evolved the Gospels probably drew on the possible allusions of Elijah and Enoch and combined them with other ideas coming from Zoroaster, Egypt etc. I also think of it in terms of the evolution of the JW faith. In Russells day everyone went to heaven. Later J F Rutherford alters the tradition and emphasizes the class system with two destinations. The whole process takes a couple of decades, just like the evolution of the Christian tradition of heaven.

  
  
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  27

  Some Watchtower growth projection numbers (5 scenarios)

  by Saintbertholdt in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i've been doing some watchtower membership growth projections.

  the best, worst and most lightly future scenarios.

  i've used the worlds population as a barometer of future watchtower growth.

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  Saintbertholdt

  Steve2,

  JWs have not been the "only" kid on the block for decades - their claimed days of being "the fastest growing religious group in the world" are well and truly over, as the religiuosly needy flood to other groups for consolation.

  Yeah they're actually following a very set growth pattern now.

  If my pessimist projection is correct they can actually stop their preaching activity today and still achieve some growth. Their preaching work is not really adding that much anymore. To become "the fastest growing" religion they'd have to discard a lot of the unattractive ideas like the blood doctrine, door to door etc. And that won't happen anytime soon.
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  27

  Some Watchtower growth projection numbers (5 scenarios)

  by Saintbertholdt in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i've been doing some watchtower membership growth projections.

  the best, worst and most lightly future scenarios.

  i've used the worlds population as a barometer of future watchtower growth.

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  Saintbertholdt

  "JW facts states I believe for every two the get baptised one leaves, I'm thinking it's becoming a one to one ratio."

  So you would propose it will become static? When and at what number?