Posts by TMS

18

JW's humble?

by donny in

jw
friends

during my trek through the jw's i often heard talks and comments stating how witnesses were humble and meek, unlike the haughty-title loving people of the world especially christendom.

well i just received my 2010 alumni directory that covers everyone who graduated from the two high schools that were part of the district i live in.. so i spent the afternoon parusing its pages when i came across a listing for a guy who is now an elder in the congregation i used to attend.

here is how he describes himself.

TMS

Of course, there are many humble folk among Jehovah's Witnesses, usually not those with organizational responsibilities. JW teachings actually work against humility. JWs are taught that among earth's billions they alone will survive God's selective destruction at Armageddon. JWs are taught that they alone have the "truth." They have that truth because their hearts were somehow more receptive to it than the typical non-believer. Other subtle messages indicate superiority: Their organization builds halls faster, feeds large groups faster and more efficiently, translates Scripture better, responds to natural disasters more quickly and efficiently, etc.

Becoming an ex-JW is a humbling experience. How could you have been duped by such an obviously man-made religious cult, wasting decades of your life chasing an illusion, not preparing properly for retirement or seeing to it that your children received an education? Think back to all of the counselors, teachers, householders, fellow employees, neighbors and relatives who KNEW you were brainwashed but couldn't reach you. That is humbling.

tms

32

Generation teaching. What is it about witnesses that they don't see this for what it is?

by garyneal in

i cannot for the life of me understand why jehovah's witnesses don't see right through the b.s.

regarding their overlapping generation being equal to one generation.

also, i am a bit perplexed at how little certain jehovah's witnesses know their own doctrine.. take my wife, for instance:.

TMS

Highlander:

I'm kind of torn between the view of TMS and that of Outlaw. Perhaps those that are predisposed to questioning and independent thinking will have their exit journey accelerated due to the latest generation flop. On the other hand, most jw's do not fully understand or even care about jw beliefs and doctrines.

Exactly. For most it will make no difference. But this silly version will do damage. To put it impolitely, it's simply too dumb of explanation. Can you imagine how convoluted it would be to explain the overlapping generation concept to a semi-intelligent prospective JW? The last two attempts at revising the "generation" have taken the wind out of the sails, the urgency out of the message. In the last twenty years the Watchtower has had two big doctrinal challenges: 1. Redefine the "King of the North" after the collapse of the Soviet system. 2. Make the "generation" teaching chronologically viable. So far, the Writing Department has drawn a blank.

tms

32

Generation teaching. What is it about witnesses that they don't see this for what it is?

by garyneal in

i cannot for the life of me understand why jehovah's witnesses don't see right through the b.s.

regarding their overlapping generation being equal to one generation.

also, i am a bit perplexed at how little certain jehovah's witnesses know their own doctrine.. take my wife, for instance:.

TMS

Expect more fallout from this poorly thought out adjustment. Although JW's are trained, conditioned to respond humbly and obediently to teaching changes, the spin usually is somewhat logical. This new generation belief is sort of unwieldy, confusing and illogical.

Circuit overseers are giving congregational service talks in support of the new "understanding" and assembly program time is devoted to it. This can only mean one thing. Many are finding the new teaching a tough swallow. I wonder how many "what the heck?" letters Brooklyn/Patterson has received on this new overlapping generation teaching from seasoned JW's.

I learned a long time ago that when a Watchtower article is written is frequently reactive to some trend, problem or crisis the GB sees the necessity of addressing. I believe the new generation teaching has brought some insomnia to the GB and the Writing Department.

tms

16

After Reinstatement

by truthlover in

jw
friends

can any current elders, ms, etc.

tell me if restrictions are given when a person is re instated since 2005??

i ask this as i am reading the requirements for re instatement -- it says a person has to prove they want to be reinstated and have to attend meetings for a year or more before the elders would even accept the letter request for re instatement..... .

TMS

The monitoring of the restrictions and their gradual removal is one of the most uneven aspects of the JW "judicial" system. If someone moving after DFing seeks reinstatement, his or her new congregation forms a committee to monitor repentence, conduct hearings. If the original DFing congregation is close enough they may choose to conduct a reinstatement hearing. The new congregation can only recommend reinstatement. The final decision rests with the original congregation. Restrictions and their removal are always at the discretion of the current congregation since they see the person day to day.

Some committees quickly discharge all restrictions. Others wait till asked. Some drag things out, insisting on perfection.

One of my saddest moments as a so-called elder occurred in the mid-80's. I was encouraging a young married sister to auxiliary pioneer. She said: "I can't." I asked why. She said: "You know why." An indescretion in the early 70's with her then boyfriend had caused a judicial committee to be formed. No one, including me had ever informed her of her restrictions being removed. She had been feeling that weight for over a decade.

tms

16

What to write in my niece's (JW) wedding card

by voodoo lady in

jw
friends

my very militant jw niece is marrying a jw boy who i know little about, though i presume he must have priveleges or be a pioneer for her to have dated him in the first place.

though i feel so sad at the reality she's about to face - marrying a man she barely knows who she's probably never spent time alone with - i would still like to celebrate her love, or at least these exciting new feelings that she's experiencing that she believes to be love.

(and for all i know may certainly be love).. .

TMS

Make her reflect on how gracious and thoughtful people can be even when they aren't "serving Jehovah."

tms

15

Who really are JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES......really.....?

by Terry in

jehovah's witnesses don't expect to convert the world.

they expect to educate the world about jehovah's kingdom and his christ.. before: nobody knows about it.. after: everybody knows about it.. how would you measure what people "know"?.

how well informed is the average citizen in 2010 vs 1879, for example?.

TMS

Well expressed, Terry.

Jehovah's Witnesses seldom do as the TMS Guidebook suggests: Maintain common ground. As you suggested in another thread, their modus operandi is to dismantle another's beliefs. Of course, that almost NEVER works.

Imagine a householder graciously inviting a witness into their home and saying "I've always wondered what you people actually believe. I have a half hour. Please tell me your basic message, your core beliefs." The average JW would not have a coherent, polished, well-reasoned approach. It would not be as easy as reaching for the current "Awake!" on "What Is Happening to Our Coral Reefs?" or falling back into the current KM suggested Topic for Conversation. It would not be an epic moment like Stephen's testimony or Paul's before the Antioch synagogue, the Areopogus or Gallio.

As you think back on it, we were poorly trained for the work we attempted to do. Most of what we learned or practiced in meetings was impractical, unworkable. A typical meeting for service involved trying to harmonize a scripture text with a nearly irrelevant "Watchtower" paragraph, then assigning cargroups with careful allowance for cliques, feuds, breakers and non-breakers, the in and the out crowds, etc. In the field JW's were simply an early morning annoyance at the door, a lingering mid-morning annoyance at McDonald's, breathing a collective sigh of relief as the clock neared the noon hour. An impotent educational work to say the least.

tms

37

Finish the job the Jehovah's Witnesses started on you!

by Terry in

jw
friends

what jehovah's witnesses get right is that the basis for christianity rests on scripture and the bible itself.. but, they only go just so far.

they stop at making you suspicious of bad things which have crept in to the bible through centuries of corruption.. the jw's unpack and deconstruct christianity j-u-s-t e-n-o-u-g-h for you to see the rats and spiders and cockroaches.

they quickly squeeze it all back together again repackaged.

TMS

Terry,

None of us have totally detoxified including you. Even if we feel purged of JW teaching, we hold on to JW style, JW methodology. We may still even want to share "truth" with others. Do you ever wake up at night Terry and find yourself fighting the fine fight, reliving your entire JW life, saying things you wished you had said and being victimized all over again? You want to control that dream Terry like John Wayne controlled a movie script, but your subconscious version of reality isn't all that flattering either.

I'm still waiting for someone to answer the words some writer put into the mouth of Pontius Pilate: "What is truth?"

tms

11

I`m talking to a group about JW`s I need your input ? please rerspond!!

by smiddy in

hi, guys,.

i`m a member of u3a in our local regional community,in a discussion group with approximately 16 members and have been asked to give my experiences to being a jehovah`s witness for 33 yrs and now classifying myself as an agnostic leaning towards atheism.i do of course have some idea how to proceed with this project,however your input would be greatly appreciated.i have 45 mins to present my case, then questions from others present would follow.i feel this would be a great advantage to show what the wtb&ts is all about,without coming across as a disgruntled,dissolutioned,bitter person with an axe to grind.which i am not.however i would like to present this "expose" if you like in a professional manner .this is to take place on the 26th of may.. now i`m not going to be all doom and gloom about the wtb&ts i will be highlighting some of their acheivements,the biggest single publishing organization,distributing millions of literature wordwide in numbers of languages that exceeds readers digest.at one time they had 4 publications in the guiness book of records in the top 10 most widely distributed publications available.and also in the early years they were the fore runners of religous freedoms.. so please feel free to contribute some information that will help some poor soul for falling victim to this insidious organization smiddy.

TMS

Ok, my turn. You can't tell the whole story in 45 minutes.

1. I would briefly describe Pastor Russell's early fascination with "end time" prophecies and his close collaboration with the Adventists. (Please google or search this forum for Prominent Bethelite's list of all of the failed Watchtower predictions.)

2. Describe what it was like growing up as one of Jehovah's Witnesses: no holiday celebrations, no sports or extra-curricular activities, totally stifled ambition, no college, etc. Encourage your audience to sympathize with young JW's who are stifled, suppressed and held back by similar controls to this day.

3. Talk about the effect shunning has on families and teenage JW's who succumb to the "desires of youth." Emphasize the tremendous psychological effects: families torn apart, young people stripped of self-worth and familial love, family members who die as strangers.

4. Touch on the no blood policy. Show how it contradicts the so-called "sanctity of life" JW belief. Touch on the thousands who have died because of contradictory and confusing blood policy.

5. Lastly. Talk about your own wasted years, lost opportunities, estrangement from your extended non-JW family. . . .all due to your mindless adherence to Watchtower doctrines and policies.

6. Open the forum to questions. . . . . .

tms

15

What are the percentage of reinstated JWs that really repented for their sins or fake their repentance?

by asilentone in

TMS

Elders cannot guage repentence. They simply look at the superficial: meeting attendance, submissive countenance, facial expression, the "correct" answers during a reinstatement hearing. Sometimes elders have personal issues that will cause them to extend the time a person is out. Some anal elders will make the reinstated grovel for the least "privileges" once reinstated. It's a total power trip.

tms

41

How Many 18-35 year old JW's have Exited the Cult in Your Family ?

by flipper in

jw
friends

just wanted to start this to get a pulse on how many young jw's are exiting percentage wise recently in the witness organization.

in my family i have 8 young people aged 21 through 35 .

these are my son and two daughters and my older siblings 5 adult children.

TMS

ok, the next generation for my wife and I:

Once active nieces, nephews ranging in age from 20 to 47=16

Still active nieces, nephews=2, both disfellowshipped, now reinstated.

One 38 year old son once active, now out.

Our family total=15 out, 2 in.

tms