TMS

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Posts by TMS

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  34

  Speaking to an Elder tomarrow, I'm almost free!!!!!!!

  by drew sagan in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  major developments in my world, just wanted to let you all know about it.

  i'm meeting with the elder tomarrow afternoon.

  i'm going to stick heavy to the watchtowers interpretation of matthew 24 and how it is unbalanced, sensationalized and out of touch with any historical evidence or respect for the bible.

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  TMS

  Drew,

  As you well know, your wife's response is 1000 times more important than the whatever response you get from the "elder".

  tms
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  24

  youngest disfellowshipped???

  by loosie in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  .

  ok so with all this talk about geeting young people to get baptized, got me to wondering.... how young have you known someone to get disfellowshipped?.

  youngest i knew was 17 years old.

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  TMS

  thoughts on this from a thread some time back. http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/73489/1.ashx

  tms
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  106

  Lots of Bethelites Not Happy With Downsizing

  by Seeker4 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i had a long conversation last night with an old jw friend whose sister and brother-in-law are bethelites since the 1970s.

  she is an artist, and he runs a small but important department there.. we were talking about the bethel downsizing (my friend was well aware of it), and i told him i figured his sister and b-i-l would be safe due to the fact that they are now in their 60s and have something close to 4 decades seniority.

  but he said no, that they were worried that they would be asked to leave as well, sent into the circuit work or as special pioneers sent where the "need is great.".

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  TMS

  Stephanus "They could have simply continued to charge for everything and paid sales taxes as well; if they had, they'd still be riding high on the hog and wouldn't be making all these cost cutting changes that are simply driving more Dubs away. But the Tower has an almost psychotic aversion to rendering unto Caesar, that they'd sooner die than pay taxes. "

  I certainly thought so at the time, especially since the percentage, whatever it was would simply have been passed on to the "spiritually-thirsty ones."

  Nothing ruined the mood of a good Bible discussion like the anti-climactic panhandling for money "for the world-wide work."

  Although a pioneer and elder during the years of all that "simplification", I never could bring myself to ask for a donation. It was absolutely against my nature. I simply featured the literature less, used tracts more to start studies, and if it went far enough, gave the householder a "gift" of the study book.

  I think the new "donation arrangement" in light of the Swaggert court case was the beginnning of current financial decline for the Watchtower. It was a poorly thought out decision, which now has life-changing implications for thousands of Bethelites.

  It put the current Watchtower leaders directly at odds with Charles Taze Russell who said "we will never beg for money."

  tms
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  106

  Lots of Bethelites Not Happy With Downsizing

  by Seeker4 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i had a long conversation last night with an old jw friend whose sister and brother-in-law are bethelites since the 1970s.

  she is an artist, and he runs a small but important department there.. we were talking about the bethel downsizing (my friend was well aware of it), and i told him i figured his sister and b-i-l would be safe due to the fact that they are now in their 60s and have something close to 4 decades seniority.

  but he said no, that they were worried that they would be asked to leave as well, sent into the circuit work or as special pioneers sent where the "need is great.".

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  TMS

  I can't help but think that in an indirect way, much of this downsizing is directly related to the tax problems of Jerry Lee Lewis' first cousin, Jimmy Swaggert.

  Recall that shortly after the Watchtower filed a brief as a "friend of the court" in this case, holy spirit moved them to the "simplification" that made assembly food and Watchtower literature available freely with donations to the "world-wide work" graciously accepted.

  Nothing has financially been the same since.

  tms
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  19

  A statement in the Watchtower that angered me...

  by slimboyfat in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the study article on the "patience of jehovah" a few weeks back caused some discussion on the forum.

  but there was one particular turn of phrase that stuck out in my mind concerning job:"the outcome?

  jehovah "blessed the end of job afterward more than his beginning.

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  TMS

  A personal story written on this forum five years ago references Job's ten lost children in the second to the last paragraph. http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/9890/1.ashx

  As brainwashed JW's we were calloused to the loss of even ten children. After all Jehovah replaced them with ten more. Getting away from Watchtower spin gives us all a chance to re-examine all these Bible stories.

  tms
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  107

  What do you do for living?

  by averyniceguy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i am america sign language teacher and a caretaker of a house near the beach.

  what do you do for living?

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  TMS

  Retired 1/01/04
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  40

  Please explain: Guilt for not having a submissive wife

  by serendipity in

  1. social
  2. relationships

  i read someone's post today where he indicated as a jw he had a guilty conscience because he didn't have a submissive wife.

  i'm trying to wrap my brain around that.

  was that a common thing?

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  TMS

  Yes, the line, semi-paraphrased: "If a man can't preside over his own family, how can he preside over the congregation?"

  My wife of 38 years was never the model JW submissive wife. She never hesitated to speak her mind if an elder rule or statement was ridiculous. This made for occasional uncomfortability in my thirty year "eldership". Crudely, some old nitwit elder would ask: "Who wears the pants in your family?"

  The life of an elder's wife can be terrible, at times. Imagine sitting through two hours of Kingdom Hall meetings at the conclusion of which is announced a "short" elders meeting. That meeting turns into an hour and a half. The wife is stuck with kids, Bible studies, passengers, etc., not to mention having to deal with the other elder's wives.

  tms
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  21

  Latest KM encourages JWs to ask for referrals

  by ocsrf in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  .

  i thought i was reading one my sales manuals from work.

  so much of what the watchtower does is right out of any companies sales training manuals.. oc

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  TMS

  Soliciting referrals was an intregal part of the "Truth" book six month study program in 1968.

  tms
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  18

  This "freak'in" Divorce class from another church - damn'it...

  by Confucious in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  just wanted to take a second to vent.... me and best friend got the same royal middle finger up the ass when it came to our marriages.. my friend's marriage was much like mine.

  but i'll give you the nutshell of mine only.... was married 11 years.

  pioneered full-time with my wife for 10 years.

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  TMS

  and like you, the elders suddenly sprang to life when I was doing something disfellowship-able.

  ~merfi

  That's all they're trained to do. If you attended a Kingdom Ministry School for the elders, you would see every nuance of the disfellowshipping scenario discussed and rehearsed.

  No practical training for actually dealing with family problems is ever given. Old platitudes like "the Word of God has power", "pray for holy spirit", "being active in God's service is a protection" are the magical answer to any problem.

  Interestingly enough, when the discussion is opened up for elders to ask their instructors specific questions, the questions almost always deal with some aspect of their judicial role: what constitutes proof, what constitutes a "practice" of sinning, how to determine repentence, implementing restrictions, when to rerecommend those who have been judicially dealt with, ad nauseum.

  I think the reason for this emphasis is that giving practical help with family or personal problems goes against several core beliefs of Jehovah's Witnesses. JW's magically become "better fathers, mothers, children, employees" as a result of "applying Bible principles". They are the "happiest people on earth." Worldly counselors using material not based of "God's Word" would simply hijack all this happiness.

  tms
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  18

  This "freak'in" Divorce class from another church - damn'it...

  by Confucious in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  just wanted to take a second to vent.... me and best friend got the same royal middle finger up the ass when it came to our marriages.. my friend's marriage was much like mine.

  but i'll give you the nutshell of mine only.... was married 11 years.

  pioneered full-time with my wife for 10 years.

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  TMS

  Would you really want "untrained volunteers" giving you direction in any aspect of your life?

  Elders are given absolutely no tools to deal with marital unhappiness, depression, alcoholism, low self-esteem, etc.

  While one in a thousand JW elders might have some life experience-based advice that could be helpful, the range of specific counsel from the spectrum of men serving as elders would border on idiocy. Some of these good old boys who make you chuckle when they stumble through their Service Meeting parts are absolutely dangerous when trying to help people make life decisions.

  tms