The fact that it is reoccurring is serious. I had gout four years ago. Everything I read indicated that if it reoccurred, it would be problematic from then on.
tms
Posts by TMS
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32Ever have a gout attack?
by Gregor ini'm going through it this weekend.
the right foot big toe joint.
i get this every couple of years and it is the most painful thing i've ever experienced.
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46
IF IT AIN'T BROKE---WHY would they FIX IT?
by Terry inhere is a bible quiz.
answer each question to the best of your ability.. 1.when god has sent a prophet to speak in his name, what is the standard which must be met?.
2. if a prophecy fails, what does it indicate about the prophet?.
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TMS
Terry,
Nice summary.
Glad you touched on Charles Taze Russell's egomania. It's easy to see Rutherford's tyrranical, bullying ways, but many times Russell is
given a free pass.Can you imagine the gall of a 27 year old clothing store owner's son, reading some Adventist pamphlets, and wanting to educate Pittsburgh's
ministers? Obviously, he had the charisma of hundreds of other charletons. With mock humility, he accepted the role of "the faithful servant".For me, Maria Russell is the more interesting character. How did she so quickly get "up to speed" to write articles for "The Watchtower"? How did
she get past the "I do not permit a woman to teach" New Testament declaration?All of this research is a two-edged sword. The more shaky our religious heritage, the more gullible we are shown to have been.
tms
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39
Why don't I see any pastors or clergy on this forum?
by moshe init just occurred to me that i have never seen a member on jwd who was a minister/priest/rabbi/monk,friar,shamman, etc.
maybe i have just missed their posts and then again, maybe they don't come here for some reason.
i know they must come in contact with jw's and ex-jw's all the time.
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TMS
lavendar,
Some appreciation for your feeble attempt at humor(fundies laugh, too). You may want to check a couple of my earlier posts. The impeccable WIKIPEDIA:
"studies have shown that the earliest known version of the Book of Revelation (from the 3rd century) used 616. One 11th century manuscript also shows 665.
All that aside, I took the liberty to scan your profile. I notice that you are not a JW, but that your son has married one and is "progressing" toward baptism. I genuinely feel for you, your son and future grandchildren. It's going to be a long, painful haul.
tms
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39
Why don't I see any pastors or clergy on this forum?
by moshe init just occurred to me that i have never seen a member on jwd who was a minister/priest/rabbi/monk,friar,shamman, etc.
maybe i have just missed their posts and then again, maybe they don't come here for some reason.
i know they must come in contact with jw's and ex-jw's all the time.
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TMS
There are some web sites that try to "pastor" ex-JW's. Typically, beyond lame. Usually, accepting "Jee-suz" as your personal savior is the pitch.
Of the clerical positions you mentioned, I might waste a couple of minutes visiting with a shaman.
We have a semi-symbiotic relationship with the Mormons who have visited this site. They don't try to preach. They know that different crap is still crap. At least they got to live normal social lives, went to college, networked in business and felt no "woe for the pregnant woman in those days" and had lots of kids.
I will place an ad anyway.
WANTED: Unusually thick-skinned man or woman of the cloth needed to minister to ex-JW's on message board. Prepare to have your belief system shredded, ridiculed, pulverized. Leave your self-righteousness, Scriptures and platitudes at home. Potential congregation of thousands. No tithing or contributions likely. Applicant responsible for room and board, transportation. Vacations anytime you need to "get away" at your own expense. Look to "Caesar" for healthcare.
tms
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26
Reinstated 5 yrs ago
by Treebe ini am just trying to understand what my choices are.
i have been reinstated for just over 5 yrs and still have not had my privileges back.
i am a single mom and have been to all the meeting that we can, doing our best outside of kids colds and flu's, not to mention car trouble, but i have always turned in my time each month and study reports, but still i can not answer.
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TMS
Treebe,
Do you know why you are feeling this pain? There is no God involved in this process. This is a man-made organization with man-made rules.
Do you want your children to grow up with the same regimentation of their lives? Are you willing to shun them when they make bad choices and receive congregational discipline?
Your best move is to leave this controlling cult and not look back. Give your children the best education and life they can have. Support and nurture them. This cult will quelch every bit of creativity out of you and your children.
Your best move? Leave Jehovah's Witnesses.
There is a better life for you and your kids.
tms
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26
Reinstated 5 yrs ago
by Treebe ini am just trying to understand what my choices are.
i have been reinstated for just over 5 yrs and still have not had my privileges back.
i am a single mom and have been to all the meeting that we can, doing our best outside of kids colds and flu's, not to mention car trouble, but i have always turned in my time each month and study reports, but still i can not answer.
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TMS
The restoration of privileges after reinstatement is a very uneven process, almost cruel. Some committees will insist on near-perfect meeting attendance and field service. It is totally in their hands.
If the reinstated person doesn't speak up, the elders may simply forget.
One of my lowest points as an elder: I encouraged a young married sister to consider auxiliary pioneering. She looked at me quizzically. "You've never restored my privileges! I can't pioneer or even comment yet." I felt about an inch high. It was a terrible injustice. There is no real system in place to monitor the restoration of privileges for reinstated persons. It totally depends on the alertness of the elders and the aggressiveness of the one reinstated.
tms
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28
Janitor question and the KH phone is busy
by garybuss inhow do i load a 20" floor buffer in the back of my pick up alone without killing my back?
serious question.
i just bought a buffer to use in refinishing some oak floors.
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TMS
I guess an Arkansan will have to help here. Back ur pickup into a dry ditch or low spot on ur property. Ur tailgate will be almost at ground level. This is the way many motorcycles are loaded into pickups without a ramp.
tms
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11
Women's Place In Jehovah's Arrangement
by TMS in"i do not permit a woman to teach or to exercize authority over a man, but to be in silence.
" these inspired words are frequently quoted to help define the role of women among jehovah's witnesses.
then eve.
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TMS
"I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercize authority over a man, but to be in silence." These inspired words are frequently quoted to help define the role of women among Jehovah's Witnesses. The logic behind such a limitation applied to one sex is explained in the verse that follows: "For Adam was formed first. then Eve. (The logical extension of such reasoning would be to place Adam under the animal's supervision, since in relation to Adam they were "formed first". But before the animals get too big for their britches, they are newbies compared to green vegetation. Perhaps, the venus flytrap should be lord and master of all.)
Jehovah, the Great Anesthesiologist, put the first man into a deep sleep, pulled one of his ribs out and used that bone material to make the first woman. No forensic scientists had a chance to compare the DNA of the first couple, but Adam himself declared them a perfect match: "This is at last bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh. This one will be called Woman because from man this one was taken."
Jehovah adjusted the role of women after Adam and Eve sinned. Despite the fact that, according to Scripture, Eve was tricked and Adam was not tricked, Eve and all woman after her seemed to bear the brunt of Jehovah's harsh words: "I shall greatly increase the pain of your pregnancy. In birth pangs you will bring forth children and your craving will be for your husband and he will dominate you."
Wow! Jehovah doesn't care much for people who get tricked! Of course, Eve could only guess what increased birth pangs would be like since he had not as yet given birth. I'm a little confused though. Would man have dominated women if Eve had not allowed herself to get tricked? Is man's headship part of the punishment women receive because of the first woman being "thoroughly deceived" or was man's domination part of Jehovah's purpose all along? Anyway, Jehovah put the man who sinned intentionally in charge of the woman who was fooled into sinning.The perfect law Jehovah gave to his "name people" further helped women to understand their role more clearly. Natural functions like menstruation and childbirth actually made women "unclean". Should she give birth to another female, she would be unclean twice as long as she would giving birth to a male. To atone for her "uncleanness" she could slaughter a sheep and turtledove or pigeon and give it to Jehovah. If she was dirt poor, Jehovah would accept two dead turtledoves or pigeons. If a man suspected that the wife he married was not a virgin, her family had to bring proof of her virginity. If they could not, she was stoned to death. If a man hated his wife, he could divorce her, giving her a "certificate of divorce". If her new husband died, her first husband could not take her back. Jehovah said "no!". She was now "defiled".
All-wise Jehovah gives further instructions to deal with women in Numbers 5. If a husband merely suspects his wife of unfaithfulness, he may bring her before the priest. She is made to drink holy water mixed with dust from the floor and swear that she has been faithful. If she is lieing her belly swells and her "inner thigh" wastes away. The is no such test of unfaithfulness for the man.
Let's fastforward to modern times and the role of woman among JW's.
Although Jehovah's Witnesses view the Mosaic Law as "perfect", they are not bound by it. Christ "fulfilled the Law", they say. Still woman are to be subservient to men among JW's. "In turn the head of the woman is the man."(1 Cor.11:3) They have to "obey" their husbands. Even if a woman makes a foolish vow to Jehovah, her husband can anul it.JW woman are free to preach to the public. They do the majority of the public work. "The woman declaring the good news are a large army" is the verse the Watchtower loves to quote. Woman in the congregation are not exactly "silent" as the Bible recommends. They are permitted to comment. In 1958 it was announced at the international convention in NYC that woman would be given the opportunity of being in the Theocratic Ministry School, not giving talks to the audience, but "presentations" to other "sisters".
Occasionally, when no baptised males are present, a sister may be called upon to do something normally done by a male. This might be praying or conducting a meeting for service. In that case, she must wear a headcovering to show her submission. Many sisters carry a scarf or dinner napkin in their purses for that very purpose. If there is a 12 year old baptised boy present, there is no need for a head covering. The 12 year old officiates to the delight and relief of the woman present.
I have a 45 year old nephew who is severely retarded, but a devout servant of Jehovah. My sister-in-law coaches him each week to be able to read the day's text and lead the sisters in midweek field service. Many of the sisters have expressed to my nephew what a "blessing" it is to have him there midweek to "take the lead."
Sisters are free to join in congregational singing during meetings. Years ago, some even played piano to accompany the singers. That role has been replaced by a tape player.
Married sisters may serve at Bethel. Some secretarial roles are open, but usually taken by the wives of Bethel heavies. A newbie sister will likely be handed a toilet brush.
There are many opportunities in the congregation for sisters to use their cooking skills. Circuit overseers, visiting speakers and Kingdom Hall workers all need to be fed. In the case of a Kingdom Hall feeding, likely a sink will not be available. Casserole dishes, pots and pans will have to be taken back home and scrubbed.
Since sisters cannot serve as elders or ministerial servants, the most prestigious role in the congregation for a woman is being the wife of an elder. She possibly could simply marry an older man, a widower. Or she could take her chances with a younger man and develop him into an elder. Some sisters push their husbands into field service, write out their talks, press out their clothing and even conduct the family study.(The husband turns in the report, though, after his wife fills it out for him.) This can all pay off finally when hubby is appointed an elder.
An elder's wife is the envy of other sisters. She may be inconvenienced almost weekly when he has to stay after the meeting for an impromptu "short" elders meeting lasting 1-1/2 hours. After spending all day at the circuit assembly, she watches all the elders with their attache' cases file away to the elder's meeting with the circuit and district overseer. She is stuck in the main auditorium to meditate or keep the kids from killing each other. Other elder's wives congregate in little cliques while she waits another hour for her man.
Just a brief look at the role of women after the first one got tricked.tms
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Ever encounter gypsies?
by Gregor inthere is quite large community of them in this area.
the more you get to know them or deal with them the less you like them.
what a strange and ugly culture.
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TMS
Forty years ago I worked in a retail store. The owner was leary of gypsies as they had frequently left the store with items they had not paid for. Two particular gypsy girls I remember. They were masterful at diverting your attention. Flirtation, personal questions, questions about items not in stock. . . . . . . . These two girls even worked with a ventriloquist who made it seem that someone on the roof was asking for me by name to help him.
No ethnic disrespect here, just my personal recollection.
tms
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My personal proof elders are not spirit appointed
by stillajwexelder ini was congregation secretary.
all of us were against appointing a particular ms as elder despite the fact he had regular pioneered for 15 years.
the reason was he told crude jokes and all in the congregation knew it.
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TMS
stillajwexelder,
There have been a couple of power shifts in the last 30 years between the circuit overseers and the body of elders. Forty years ago, the circuit overseers simply made the recommendations. With the elder arrangement (introduced in 1971, implemented in 1972), the power briefly shifted. For a brief, heady time, the visiting circuit overseer was simply "another elder". That brief perestroika came with the research on the Aid book. After the Ray Franz DF-ing, things got hard and cold again.
I did a thread on this awhile back: "How the Circuit Overseer Manipulates the Body of Elders" http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/143449/1.ashx
Since you mentioned circuit overseers, I will site one of my major pet peeves. The "Flock" book and elder manuals before that always described elder meetings as having an "agenda". It was to be issued before the meeting so no one came in flat footed. Each elder could prayerfully, scripturally consider each point. Circuit Overseers violate this principle almost routinely ramrodding their personal, pet issues through. One circuit overseer wanted a perfectly good Kingdom Hall remodeled. He "worked" with select brothers in field service, orchestrated the remodel down to the cost and specifics. Knowing that the Presiding Overseer at the time would be resistant to change, he first orchestrated a change in that position. The new PO was a heavy player in the "quick-build" program. So the majority of the body walked into an elder's meeting not knowing they would leave with a new PO and a tremendous remodel project to fund. It was all orchestrated in advance. I made what was viewed as a rebellious comment at that meeting. I suggested we leave the Kingdom Hall "as is" and donate the money we would have spent to build a dozen "third world" Kingdom Halls. If looks could kill! LOL!
tms