what was jehovah thinking when he put that tree in the middle of the garden and the told adam and eve not to eat of its fruit?
the real all-knowing god would never have done such a thing.
didn't he know that making the tree and the fruit would absolutely ruin this perfect man and woman?
Shootist - You ask
What was Jehovah thinking when he put that tree in the middle of the garden and the told Adam and Eve not to eat of its fruit?
Perhaps we should ask:
What was the writer of Genesis thinking when he claimed that a god called Jehovah put a tree in the middle of a garden and the told Adam and Eve not to eat of its fruit?
ex -mr crumpet and i after just shy of 8 years together have found we are arguing more and more and have decided to split up.
since we made the decision on monday this week we have been getting on like a house on fire.
the arguments have stopped, he is on time for all his appointments to meet, which hasn't happened in years, he phones if he's going to be late and i have stopped being a moody cow and drinking all his wine without permission.. the hope is that we will get back together and find eahc other attractive again after a break from one another.
Crumpet
I am sorry to hear that you are having problems. For a long time your posts have indicated that something is missing from your present relationship.
It seem you have reached the point where you both have to redefine the basis of your relationship or move on. I hope you can decide what is best and find the happiness you deserve.
All the Best
Trevor
if you haven't already, please read the thread richie's elders: deaf?
dumb?
if you haven't read it, you won't get the following.. so last wednsday night, after the fine spiritual feast prepared by the governing body and delivered by their "spirit appointed" waiters, i was approached by an one of the brothers who served on my judicial committee.
Richie
You are more likely to stay a Jehovah’s Witnesses than those that Pioneer.
I knew people your age who delayed baptism, knocked the whole set up and went to college and university. They could not be touched because they were not baptised. They are all now elders. They have good careers and encourage others to Pioneer.
Many of the people who gave the religion their all and Pioneered, became disillusioned and left.
I should know - I was one of them!
a comment by funkyderek really hit my like a lightning bolt.
on the whole, these feel like high morals to me.
no morals?.
AlmostAthiest You have hit on a very important point. Morals are subjective, contradictory and usually decided by those in authority.
My own father was a classic example of this. Although a Jehovah’s Witness he was fascinated by war films. His hobbie was making model World War Two airplanes and he took me to see The Battle of Britain. He also love Westerns. No amount of murder, killing or blood and guts troubled him.
But at the slightest suggestion of sexually activity on the TV, he would leap from his seat and turn of the TV, then lecture us about the evils of sex.
Even as a child I struggle to see how making love to someone was wrong while blowing their brains out was OK!
You can work the rest out for yourself.
"my argument against god was that the universe seemed so cruel and unjust.
but how had i got this idea, just and unjust?
a man does not call a crooked line crooked unless he has some idea of a straight line.
Shining One
You are starting to apply logic and reasoning to your argument. This is a dangerous path that leads to the discovery of reality.
It could be damaging to your faith!
we all have a nature.
we are each born different from others in many respects.
our human-ness is conceptually the same, however, as we age our differences become more and more apparent.
We are only one of many creatures on this planet. What sets us apart is that we are the most complicated due to our large brains. It is our very brain that has become the problem and may cause our downfall, because in our quest for fulfilment, purpose and satisfaction we are destroying the planet we depend on.
So much heartache and neurosis is caused by our inability to control the endless chatter of our minds. We continually relive every hurt we have experienced and dwell on thoughts that we know will cause us pain.
I am among a growing number of strange people who believe that our true nature is found through meditation. Through the regular quieting of the mind we can discover our true nature and become more than just intelligent neurotic animals.
I know you will not think much of my suggestion - Terry - but with such a large brain you would benefit more than most from meditation.
isnt it amazing how life can totally turn around and you end up in a place you swore you would never be in?
5 years ago, i was "happily" brainwashed, unaware of the deceptions.
i always thought that the jw's were right and everything against them was lies from satan.
Welcome Willow Tree - you say
I am incredibly angry at God.
It is understandable that you are angry with the god invented by those who wrote the bible. But it is becoming clear to you that no such monster exists. As you say:
…the search has led me down to a path where I realise there is no God. Or, at least, there is no God as religion portrays it.
With all its fault the world is still a wonderful expression of life and being a part of it, even for the short time we have on earth, is an experience most of us are glad to have had. If you look at the whole reality of our world from a higher perspective it will start to make more sense.
Forget about worshiping a hateful god, punishment, reward and all the other nonsense that has caused you so much pain. The force of life dwells in you and is on your side, it is not against you and it does not judge you. Look for the good in people and find peace within yourself.
You may think you have lost all truth but it is likely that you are just starting on a journey that will lead you to truth and a true understanding of life's meaning. Such understanding is so often born out of pain.
t
fool me once; shame on you.... fool me twice; shame on me.. we've all heard that one before.
it implies that being fooled is everybody's susceptibility until more facts are presented which enable more critical thinking.. critical thinking is something you aren't born with.
it takes lots of practice.. and anything humans want to learn requires many tries.
I missed this romping good thread due to the pressures of my Epicurean life style.
There have been many excellent points raised on this thread and they serve to remind us of the need to be alert, aware and honest with ourselves and others.
I do not consider myself to be either cynical or sceptical - just aware. I insist on exercising my freedom to examine and if necessary reject anything that does not add up, or appears to be seeking control over my life. This includes politics, religion, people and habits.
People who wish to have any degree of power over other will attempt to offer false promises and instil a belief system in others that make them feel indebted to them while they try to appear as benefactors.
We need to examine every belief we wear, like a garment, and ask, ‘where did I acquire this from.’ If necessary throw out every garment we have and be prepared to be naked for a while. Nothing less thorough will do.
True love and kindness does exist in this selfish world, but it is rare is often attracted by those who demonstrate it.
what always strikes here on jwd is the number of posters who completely and entirely doubt the jw theology, reject the majority of the teachings and "rules", express their boredom and frustration at having to attend meetings and conventions and yet, still, continue to keep up the facade of attending the meetings, going out in service, essentially choosing to 'live a lie'...... now, i understand fully the complications around leaving such an organization especially concerning family, but, for gods sake people, it would take the most extreme, extraordinary circumstances to keep somebody inside a duplicitous, controlling cult when at any time, you do have the freedom to just walk away.......we are all free moral agents capable of escaping the wts so i humbly ask, .
1) how and why do you keep up the facade?
do your circumstances really justify lying to yourself and family?.
As humans we can often see the faults in our life situation with the logical mind and know what we should be doing. The emotional part of our mind takes a lot longer to catch up, sometimes a long as ten years.
Making change that will cause us emotional pain is something we will resist at the deepest level. To make change we must first accept our findings intellectually and then communicate the need for change to the emotional part of our mind. Then time has to be allowed to change at a pace we can cope with.
This is why it takes so long to break free of a cult such as the Jehovah’s Witnesses. It is not always wise to rush the process. Everything changes gradually and change takes as long as it takes. Anyway, what’s the hurry?
Trevor............................all the time in the world.
a search for truth.
c. t. russell was born in the united states, in allegheny (now part of pittsburgh), pennsylvania, on february 16, 1852. he was the second son of joseph l. and ann eliza (birney) russell, who were presbyterians of scottish-irish descent.
charles mother died when he was only nine years old, but from an early age, charles was influenced by both of his religiously-minded parents.
The search for truth is a personal responsibility and sometimes the conclusions reached may not be the ones we had hoped for. It is sometimes easier to believe what we want to, rather than face reality. Reality is not always agreeable, but it is always truthful. There is truth in love. There is truth in the silent witness of nature, for it never lies, it simply is and always will be.
Life has chosen to live in you therefore you were worthy of life before you were born. I urge you never to surrender your birthright to gain the approval of those who claim that your right to life is dependent on membership of their club.
You have already been invited to the banquet of life and it is free. The only qualification required is that you are alive - and you are - wonderfully alive.
I hope that in your journey through life you find peace within yourself, for it is the hallmark of truth.
Taken from the book ‘Opening the Door to Jehovah’s Witnesses’ By Trevor Willis. Download available from http://www.lulu.com
