Posts by truman

9

Ogden UT or Mesa/Apache Junction Arizona

by reubenfine in

i grew up in ogden, utah, washington terrace cong in the 1960's.

moved to apache junction in 1970. thought i would see if any old friends are around.

new friends are always welcome.

truman

I lived in Mesa, and attended the Apache Junction cong. for around a year in 1978-79.

truman

3

Mormons making movies, how about us?

by truman in

this week's "newsweek", sept. 23, 2002, has a small article about a current series of movies made by mormons skewering their culture.. they're a laugh riot.

mormons, known for their seriousness and sobriety, are letting loose on the silver screen with a spate of small-budget comedies.

.....two brigham young university grads, started the trend with "the singles ward", a campy jab at the mormon singles scene... (a line about divore: "our ancestors were able to handle 4 or 5 wives.

truman

This week's "Newsweek", Sept. 23, 2002, has a small article about a current series of movies made by Mormons skewering their culture.

THEY'RE A LAUGH RIOT
Mormons, known for their seriousness and sobriety, are letting loose on the silver screen with a spate of small-budget comedies. .....two Brigham Young University grads, started the trend with "The Singles Ward", a campy jab at the Mormon singles scene... (a line about divore: "our ancestors were able to handle 4 or 5 wives. You can't even keep one?" The movie-PG for "automotive mayhem"- has spawned 8 other "Mormon comedies." (Eight!) A few are about the perils of the missionary work, and one's about church basketball leagues. All this has prompted Mormon filmmaker N.S. Jones to make a mockumentary about the quest to become the Mormon Spielberg. (think "Spinal Tap" with Mormons) "This market will be really competitive," Jones says. "I'm mocking it before ot gets out of hand." (by Elsie Christianson)

This sounds like an untapped market for JWs. Are there any budding filmmakers out there among us? I bet we could come up with some story lines to rival the Mormons! I think the JW singles scene must be as filmworthy as any other. Think of the possibilities for hilarity, when cameras follow young people in neverending circles around convention arenas (done ala Blair Witch Project, with the shaky camera), in search of their elusive prey. I bet a good film examining what goes on in service cars groups could be a hit.

truman

21

Question For Ex-JW Sisters

by Larry in

jw
friends

school, got baptized, and started working the midnight shift, i went out in service

everyday with the morning group

i loved it because going out enabled me to get to know the friends

truman

I have always thought that the WTS was wasting some of their best talent by keeping us sisters 'in our place'. As to organizing car groups, the best service group leaders would get out of the way and let the sisters do it, saying that those who needed help should come forward and he would help them. That worked well. I really hated it when the CO would come, and insist on arranging car groups personally. He never knew the personal dynamics of the various people, who preferred to go with whom, who couldn't stand to be in the same group with whom, who wouldn't talk at the door and so had to be placed with someone more outgoing, etc. It invariably created unpleasant situations.

Personally, I never had any desire to have a position of responsibility in the cong. Even the Ministry School was more than I would have done by choice, as I hate being on stage, but I did it because I was supposed to. Still, I think there was always a buried kernel of resentment knowing that I was a second class servant of Jehovah, by virtue of my gender.

For the most part, I and other sisters in our cong, tried to view those young brothers who had to take charge in a motherly fashion, as if we were contributing our part in their development towards their spiritual progress as a man 'reaching out'. My son's were baptized at a very young age, and they went through this. The sisters would just smile and say how well they were doing, while at the same time being glad there was a male of some kind present, so one of them wouldn't have to put a napkin on her head and read the text to the rest of us. Really, any way you look at it, adherence to these silly procedures was ridiculous.

One thing a friend and I used to comfort ourselves with was the idea that if the Bible hadn't said that only the men could have congregational teaching and leadership duties, then most likely, we sisters would have ended up DOING IT ALL, and who wanted that!.

truman

8

JW Amusement Park Rides and Games

by Beans in

how about this scary one, ride the wild beast of revalation.

field service bumper cars, you have to place six mags by the end of the ride.. briefcase merry go round.

pin the tail on the fat elders wife.

truman

The New Light/Old Light SCRAMBLER
(If you weren't confused when you got on, you will be when the ride is over)

WT & AWAKE Shooting Gallery
(No ammunition)

The Ferris Wheel of Disfellowshipping
(Once you get on, the only way off is to jump)

Pioneer Pace Go-Carts
(these are governored at 2 mph, so it is a pretty boring ride)

Judge Rutherford's 80-proof Log Ride
(you'll get soaked on this one)

The Armageddon Choo-Choo Train
Hey, these amusement park trains just go around in circles, don't they)

The Goin' to Heaven Sky Cable Car Ride
(limited availability, must have advance ticket)

Satan's World of Sin Octopus Ride
(It'll reach out and grab you)

9

Dubs, Armageddon, and Signs Of The End

by SYN in

this was just so hilarious that i had to send it to the board.

originally there was a nifty link to an old light website (it's amazing that even some dub websites can now officially be considered "old light", heh!

) given to us by good old jt, and here is a quote from it:.

truman

My captions.....

GOD, I'm famished......gimme something to kill!!

Now we'll see some action on that 'Sigfried & Roy' issue!

After Armageddon, we'll all have our own lions and tigers for pets......uuummmmm, maybe that's not such a good idea after all.

Now listen, all you other heads!! In order to accomplish God's work, we must ge organized! I'll be the governing body, because I'm already on top, and you guys can be the cult members....no, I mean the magazine salesmen.....uummm, I mean the other sheep. (thinking to self, 'my don't these sheep look tasty.)

and finally , my naughty one.....(blush)

When I said I wanted more head, this isn't what I had in mind!

truman

8

Living the JW 'simplified lifestyle'

by truman in

though i haven't heard as much about this concept in the last few years, during much.

of my tenure as a jw ('74-'01) there was frequent mention in the pages of the wt urging.

witnesses to live a simplified lifestyle.

truman

Thanks for your comments!

SYN,
I agree that the organizational 'simplification' procedures had little to do with enhancing spirituality, and every thing to do with business. Plus, stripping the food service and other amenities from the conventions took all the enjoyment (what little there was) right away.

Gopher,
It definitely is just another tentacle of the WT's controlling apparatus, and like all the rest, the net result to followers is generally not uplifting.

Mommy1,
I guess the "maxed-out-credit-card-I'll-never-have-to-pay-'cause-Armageddon's-coming" mentality is the flip side of the appearance-based asceticism I was referring to, but it comes from the same source.

dsgal,
Yes, I have seen the disdain for those financially disadvantaged. In a way, being too poor seems to be viewed by some as a little akin to being spiritually weak--- "you are just not making enough of an effort to keep up....there must be something wrong with you".

Introspection,
Yes, the image-conscious behavior I described does not embody the spirit behind Jesus' words about 'keeping your eye simple'. But it does fit with the general JW concern of greater stress on how things appear than how they actually function.

minimus,
In this case, the decision to live in a travel trailer(a recreational vehicle about 25-30 feet long and 8 feet wide) was not based on economic necessity. It was made in an effort to 'put kingdom interests first', feeling that this particular lifestyle would facilitate that. I know that the family in point had sincere motives, but the outcome of reality always seemed so incongruous with the stated aim. However, they were viewed by all and sundry as being the utmost spiritual, self-sacrificing people. Its own reward, I guess.

truman

8

Living the JW 'simplified lifestyle'

by truman in

though i haven't heard as much about this concept in the last few years, during much.

of my tenure as a jw ('74-'01) there was frequent mention in the pages of the wt urging.

witnesses to live a simplified lifestyle.

truman

Though I haven't heard as much about this concept in the last few years, during much
of my tenure as a JW ('74-'01) there was frequent mention in the pages of the WT urging
witnesses to live a simplified lifestyle. This was usually backed up by scriptures about
'keeping your eye simple' and not being caught up in materialism ala 'the desire of the eyes,
and the showy display of one's means of life.'

While I don't object to a lifestyle of simplicity, it can be a beneficial thing, I observed a rather strange phenomenon in the reaction of some JWs to this admonition. This seemed
to manifest itself primarily in two forms to me.

The first was the way that the 'friends' have of casting aspersions upon whichever
member of the congregation has been the latest purchaser of ...... a new car,....a new
home....., fancy electronic equipment....., frequent vacations....., and so on. Of course,
one's own decision to make one of these acquisitions was always made in the best of
conscience, and in full harmony with furthering kingdom interests. "It's a 4 door; it will be
a great service car." "Now that we have a bigger house, we can host the book study."
"Those kingdom melodies sound so good on that new stereo." "Travel certainly makes a
person appreciate the creation." But if someone else did it, there were often those
sideways glances and clicking of tongues.

The second thing was the decision of some particularly devoted families to chuck it all
and live in a travel trailer. I knew a local family, parents and one teenager, who did this.
They lived the travel trailer lifestyle with the kid for a couple of years, then moved into a
house till the kid left home, at which time they again returned to the travel trailer for about
3 years. Finally, they went back to owning a home. During the trailer years, they did not
go to other places, but remained local. She was a pioneer, he was an elder.

The thing that always puzzled me though was that this way of life seemed to neither
lessen their financial burden (it was a new trailer), nor the amount of time it takes to deal
with the routines of life. It has been my observation that it often takes even longer to do
things in a very small residence than otherwise. Everything must be planned, and things
have to be shifted around constantly to move from one mode, such as cooking, to another,
washing dishes, getting beds ready, and so forth. The whole thing seemed to be a lot
more about (to selves or to others) appearing simple and non-materialistic rather than
actually being more truly efficient.

Does anyone else know of those who did this? How did it turn out for them? I think
these people found that they got on each other's nerves a lot more. There was just no
place to go to get any privacy or peace. Was this the JW equivilent of self-flagellation? If you are miserable for God, it must mean you are more righteous.

truman

21

If You Didn"t PREACH, YOU were BLOODGUILTY

by minimus in

jw
friends

preaching, to a witness is the most important assignment that god gives.as a matter of fact, if you don't preach you are bloodguilty before god.if you don't cover the territory properly, you are bloodguilty.

if you didn't keep proper records, you were bloodguilty.if you didn't do not-at-homes, you were bloodguilty.if you didn't return to talk to a return visit within the week, you were bloodguilty.

obviously, we could never reach all persons with the "truth".

truman

This concept of incurring 'bloodguilt' if you did not preach sufficiently at every opportunity, was one of the most debilitating witness doctrines of all to me. I have always been a very shy person, and it is terribly difficult for me, especially, to approach strangers to accost them with information they had no interest in, or even actively wished to avoid. I hate making people uncomfortable, yet that is what every good JW must be willing and eager to do. At the same time, I sincerely wanted to see people have the opportunity to 'get saved' from the 'BIG A". It was always a dilemma for me.

It got no better, when I became more acquainted with someone more personally, for then, I knew if I started 'preaching' I would alienate the person and end up looking like some kind of religious nut, but knowing them better made me even more want to save them from destruction. For this reason, I found it very easy to avoid 'worldly association', out of fear of having to convert them, or out of shame for not being able to do it right according to the WTS.

I always thought that this doctrine was very unfair, because it puts a burden on an 'only human' person, which God himself seems unwilling to bear. After all, wouldn't it be a lot more effective in getting the message out to mankind, if God had just made the whole thing plainer, and understandable to people of all kinds. He should be able to do that, shouldn't he, if he is God, and really desires that no one be destroyed.

I am so happy to be free from the worry and guilt, and mental conflict which this doctrine put on me!!!

10

Help in "Preaching Apostaphry"

by patio34 in

the title was from a thread recently that said since jws have a ministry, do apostates have an apostrophy?.

well, today out of the blue, a previous workmate called me at work.

she stated that she had heard that i was no longer a jw.

truman

Hi Pat,

Sounds like it will be an interesting conversation. I guess everyone who has left,
has their own personal "straw that broke the camel's back". For me, it was finding out that
I had been manipulated by means of systematic and sophisticated mind control techniques.
This broke the spell immediately, but it took a little longer to get to the stage of letting go
of the doctrine. Ray Franz' books did that for me. If I was to talk to someone else like this,
I would explain about mind control, and the quantifiable, identifiable methods the WTS
utilizes. I think you are right about the danger of overwhelming a person such as your
acquaintance. It would be easy to come off as much a fanatic against the JWs as they do
when they sense a prospective convert.

Mainly, I would recommend a couple of web sites, like 'freeminds', and a book, 'Crisis of 'Conscience', then be willing to talk some more, if they want to. This way, it lets the person make their own choices in the rate at which they digest what can be difficult material.

Keep us posted on how it goes.

I myself, have been debating about sending an anonymous letter to a sister from my cong. who was recently DF'd, telling her to look online for some comfort about her situation, but have not done it yet. I do have some reservations about inserting myself into someone elses situation,
uninvited, in this case. But I would like to help.....

truman

43

DID YOU EVER LEARN anything because you were a JW?

by minimus in

jw
friends

was there ever anything positive from being a witness?

could you say that because you were a witness at least......or was it all negative?

truman

Yes, I have learned things attributable to my time as a JW, 27 years. They are not the
things which were taught in the pages of the WT or from the platform by elders.

I learned that even someone who thinks they are reasonably self-aware and a logical,
considerate thinker, can be duped under the right circumstances, by the right
blandishments, with the backing of mind control techniques.

I learned that living your life for someone else's welfare or their expectations (such as
continuing to be a loyal JW for years on end because you think you are saving your kids,
even though you, yourself are miserable as a JW), whether it be children, mate, or friends
at the KH, is no way to live, and is so empty in the long run that it neither accomplishes its
initial aim, nor provides any satisfaction for the one so martyred.

I learned that externally imposed spirituality, such as marketed by the WTS, is of little
lasting benefit, either in making one feel 'right with God' or in knowing yourself and your
connection with the rest of huamnity, and the universe.

I learned that while fear and guilt are great motivators (I once had a sister tell me that guilt
was a good thing, this in the context of the free-floating guilt which JWs are subject to,
not in connection with any particular wrongdoing), which the WTS uses to manipulate
those under their influence. Ultimately the destructive use of these tools will boomerang
on those who impose them from their watchtowers. The human spirit can only exist under
those constraints so long, before it strives to break free.

I learned that I CAN trust my own heart, and my own judgement, despite much warning to
the contrary from the pages of the WT.

truman