Hi Intro, All I have to say is...it sure worked for me! I was not in any particular turmoil over doctrinal issues, but when I discovered material online which described mind control techniques used by cult-like organizations to keep followers so bound up with guilt over never being good enough and fear of losing whatever opportunity they think they are in line for, I immediately realized that these were in operation in my own association with the WT. And in my case, the mind control material was not JW specific. Actually it was describing the parallel phenomenon with regard to Amway followers. I came across a list called "Things They Will Say", and in so many particulars, it was exactly like the social and organizational tools of manipulation which I had lived with for 27 years as a Witness. It was like a bolt of lightening to me, and I very quickly knew I would no longer allow myself to be exploited like that. Now, I did have to go through a period of sorting out the doctrinal and belief issues after that, but Ray Franz' books put the vast majority of those to rest, and time to decompress from JW thinking took care of the rest. truman
truman
JoinedPosts by truman
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5
Addressing mind control helps the person and helps them leave
by Introspection inin talking to those that go to the local xjw support group here, it occurred to me that when we address the mental/psychological aspect of witness indoctrination it kind of kills two birds with one stone.
i think this is especially helpful because you can talk about mind control without directly pointing a finger at the wts (of course there is a time for that too) - but it seems it would help you get the wheels turning first.
comparing this to the bombarding-them-with-facts-about-the-society approach, it seems a lot more subtle if not more effective.
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Did you destroy your records/LPs/Tapes?
by RAYZORBLADE ini am just wondering.
for those of you who were jehovah's witnesses back in the late 70s and early 80s, did any of you ever destroy your records/lps or cassette tapes after one of those talks at an assembly about 'demonic music', 'backwards masking' and so on?
i remember i had some records destroyed, but i couldn't do it.
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truman
I once threw away a Christmas album by Glen Campbell to show my theocratic loyalty. Ohhhh, the loss.
I knew a brother in the cong who when he became a JW, threw out all his Neil Diamond records, and refused to watch or listen to 'The Sound of Music' because it was about the immoral relationship between a young governess and her employer.
I always used to feel guilty if I was singing along with songs on the radio and the lyrics contained a mild expletive or a reference to God, like that song "Last Kiss" (Where, oh where can my baby be, she's gone to heaven so I've got to be good , so I can see my baby when I leave this world)
When my son was in his late teens, I made him get rid of some CDs which had the 'f' word on them, but now that we are both out, I have bought some albums from those same bands.
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Did Anyone Ever Like The Dramas?
by minimus inat the district convention, the highlight was always said to be the dramas.
did you really look forward to them?
was there one that ever stood out?
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truman
Did I ever like the dramas? Well, 'like' is a relative term. In one way, yes, I enjoyed them, and looked forward to them. They were a bit of tolerable amusement in the midst of the endless tedium of the hours upon hours of indistinguisable talks from the platform.
On the other hand, they were trite, overblown, contrived examples of heavy-handed moralism. The production values were of a sort which would be laughed at if presented at a school play. The main reason the assembly attendees relish them is because,at least during the hour of their presentation, time passed a bit more quickly.
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What do you fear the most about the WT cult?
by Claudia Kittel inwhen i was a jw, i think what i was most afraid of was being hurt.
i did everything to keep myself from getting hurt.
i banged on doors with the best of the pioneers.
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truman
Claudia,
I knew some JWs in Central California named Kittel. Do you by any chance have any connection to relatives in that region?
I know what you mean about being a doormat out of fear, both as a JW and as a wife. I have spent many years doing just that, until I figured out that the only way not to be a doormat any more was to pick myself up and say "no more". It was a hard lesson to learn, but thankfully I finally got the message life was trying to teach me.
truman
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Trigger Happy TV
by LDH indamn you brits!!!
this show (airs on comedy central) nearly has me needing depends.. any other fans here?.
lisa
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truman
I recently ran across this show on Comedy Central, and immediately became hooked. It is a hilarious experiment in psychology. The question is, "What will people do when confronted with casual insanity?" The answer in most cases is "nothing". Totally absurd things are done either to or in front of unsuspecting persons, and, it seems as if their social programming just goes into "That does not compute" mode.
Example: What would most people do if they witnessed 2 dogs fighting? Probably not much, but they might try to break it up. But what if the 2 dogs are very obviously 2 humans dressed in dog suits, in which one comes up and beats the stuffing out of the other in a bar, on the street, or wherever, and then walks off leaving the loser lying motionless. Do the observers try to intervene? Do they rush to help the 'dog' lying on the ground? Do they look for a policeman to help...call 911? No, incredibly, they just go on with their activities as if no impossibly insane bit of drama has accurred under their noses.
I just laugh and laugh with this show.
truman
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parental advice needed.......
by scootergirl ini have a son who is in th 4th grade.
he is a "bigger boy"......his father is 6'2" and i am 5'10".
james is very tall for his age and is also slightly overweight.
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truman
Children can be so cruel to each other, and although some kids come throught the fire stronger, others can have their spirits crushed. I was one of those kids who always got teased and it had an effect which lasted long after the events faded into history. I think it is very important, more than anything, that a child feel that his parent understands and supports him, even if the parent is not able to control the problem.
I also went through an experience with one of my sons when he was in junior high school. He became the target of bullying from another student, who tormented him at every opportunity, encouraged others to do it too, and even tried to provoke fistfights. This bully it turned out was the son of one of the psychologists at the school. She and I had a conversation after the fighing incident, and we determined to get together with both the boys, and discuss the problem. Although the bully was far from cooperative, it seemed that just some good did come from the talk with all present, and there was a lessening of the trouble.
You might think about getting together with the other kids and parents to talk, that is if the other parents can do that without trying to invalidate your son's pain and downplay the role of their own offspring. Another thing which might help is to arrange situations in which the boys can have the opportunity to become friends outside of the usual circumstances. Perhaps the bully could be able to see your son as a human being rather than a target.
truman
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Are you afraid to die?
by kenpodragon ini was about 12 years old when this happened, but i remember it like it was yesterday.
it was a late evening and i was by myself in our home.
i grew up in a country home far from most any thing.
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truman
My first conscious realization of my own mortality came upon me around the age of 12 or 13. I was just laying on the couch thinking one day, and the crushing weight of understanding that someday, I would be no more, gone from existence, invaded my thoughts. It changed my whole way of thinking. Combined with the fears of nuclear death, we baby boomers who were kids in the 60's had constantly screened for us at school in the form of filmstrips and instructional videos on gamma rays, radiation burns, and bomb shelters, I had a morbid sort of fascination with and intense desire to find a way to avoid the usual eventuality of death. Then, my mother died suddenly when I was 18, she was 44.
Enter the JWs...with the solution to everything. I could hope to live forever, and if I did die,--a resurrection. Although, even as a witness, I had a strong inner conviction that I would die young, like my mother. When I approached the age she died, it was on my mind a lot. But, it didn't happen. Then, 3 years later a health crisis and cancer scare seemed to be the fulfillment of my fears. I survived! Now, it all seems to be behind me, but I had to give up the JW dream of living forever in paradise.
However, I find that living life as an adventure, instead of putting off my life now in deference to that dream has made me think about death much less. I don't welcome it or invite it, but I don't seem to have too much fear of it. If there is more after death, I will find out, and if there isn't, I won't know the difference. I do wish, that one way or the other, though, I could know how it all turns out here on planet earth over time.
truman
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Watchtower teaches obese people are less perfect?
by kenpodragon inin the news a lot lately, are thoughts on how magazines are to blame for young woman dieting to the point of death.
not because they are not beautiful, but because they see these thin woman on the covers and think that is the image they need to be.
what is funny about image though, is depending on the time period in history, you would see a wide variety of images of beauty.
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truman
I am not sure that I ever perceived that the WT teaches that overweight people are less perfect or less spiritual. I do think that the attitude of the witnesses, at least in the US, reflects that of the culture at large. Despite the fact that there is a significant portion of the population, both in and out of the org. who are fat, isn't there a general feeling that being fat is a sign of poor self-control. Since control is a JW cornerstone, this could translate to feeling someone is less spiritual I suppose, but on the other hand, there are plenty of fat pioneers and elders, so it does not seem to be a hindrance to getting 'spiritual privileges'. However, I have heard plenty of catty comments about some obese 'sister', out of her hearing, and suitably disguised with surrounding verbiage about being concerned with her health.
I have lost over 50 pounds myself since leaving the mind control of the WT. In my case, I think the extra weight was a reflection of the unhappiness I felt inside. I don't know about others. But one could speculate, that eating is one of the very few pleasures a witness can indulge in freely. And a person who fights the battle of the bulge could easily reason that there is no need to put forth the great effort needed to lose weight, because Jehovah will take care of such physical problems in the 'new system', which is just around the corner.
truman
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How Much to Reveal to JWs?
by patio34 ini just spoke to an old friend from the jws.
we live in separate states and she does not know that i have left.
i faked it okay, but if she thinks about it, she will sense the subtle differences and my not-so-deft switch of conversation away from jw-type things.
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truman
Wow, Pat, can I relate to the situation you have described! I too, have a JW friend of many years in a state far away. Actually, she is the person who initially studied with me when I became a JW, in the early 1970's, so I have known and loved her for a long time.
I have been out of the org. mentally for a little over a year, and quit going to meetings completely about 6 months ago, but am neither df'd nor da'd. I have made the decision that this is information which she does not 'need to know'. It will do very much harm to her, and most certainly ruin our relationship if I were to reveal it to her, and I feel no guilt in keeping it from her. After all, isn't it generally the case that friends may know some of our business, but most do not necessarily know all of our business, especially if it is of a sensitive nature.
I only have limited contact with her due to the distance, and she is very unlikely to learn this information through any means other than my revealing it to her. I see no reason to throw into our relationship, this sack of garbage which the WTS foists upon us walkaways when we have the audacity to leave. She is in her 70's and is a staunch witness who has been abused by the judicial machinery of the org., but has held onto her devotion tenaciously despite that, so I see little benefit in hurting her with the news that I have BECOME AN APOSTATE!!!!!! And of course, that is how she would view the news that I left the org.
So, when I speak to her, I say nothing to give myself away, in fact, when she talks about 'theocratic' things, I participate in the conversation, though making no pronouncenments of my own convictions. It gives me fresh insight into the JW mentality. Last year, I was actually visiting her home on 9/11, and even attended a meeting or two while I was there. It was quite interesting to hear first hand the JW reaction to those events.
Even though I have decided to deal with this situation thusly, and I have made my peace with that, I still feel a deep sadness that I cannot be open with this long time friend, and that this circumstance is basically there for good thanks to the policies of the WTS.
truman
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How does the WTS define "former member"
by Cappuccino OC inthe wts claims on their web site that they do not shun "former members".
it would be interesting to know exactly how they define "former members".
does anybody else sense that the wts is playing with the lexicon, meaning, of words.
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truman
In your parsing of this passage of WTspeak, I think you have pointed out a very "Clintonesque" style of language, ("there IS no relationship", "it depends on how you define 'is'".) The object is to say something, and at the same time, say nothing, or even worse give one message to the uninitiated, and another to those 'in the know'. How ironic it would seem to be that tactics of obfuscation used by a 'worldly' politician should also be used with such facility by "God's organization".
truman