gingerbread

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Posts by gingerbread

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  22

  The problems with fighting the WTS

  by return of parakeet in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  over the years, many well-intentioned posters have been frustrated when they ask fellow apostates (wear the name proudly!

  ) to band together to let the world know how corrupt and destructive the wt cult is.

  i think there are some hard facts about this particular cult that make combatting it so frustrating:.

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  gingerbread

  Jehovah's Witnesses aren't outwardly radical. To our neighbors we appear clean-cut, honest, law-abiding, family oriented, hard-working people (JW's are busy all the time!). The only odd things that neighbors might pick up on is the lack of holiday decorations (not necessarily all that unusual anymore) and we stick to ourselves (this could be seen as a personal or family quirk).

  At this point of my family's fade - and eventual exit - we don't have any desire to join in on a "new" cause. We've had enough of trying to convince others that we are right. And we've decided to stop looking at life through a set of "negativity" glasses.

  I guess we'd just rather go camping!
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  14

  Service as a way of relieving our pain…

  by Londo111 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  service as a way of relieving our pain.... .

  no, not field service.

  i cant believe all the empty hours i spent knocking on doors, going where i was not welcome, not wanting to be there either, foisting magazines on people, occasionally studying with people in an effort to indoctrinate them.

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  gingerbread

  This is excellent Londo !

  Participating in a positive activity after one chooses to leave or is forced out of the congregation is great way to transition into your "new normal." If someone is "fading", getting involved in a non-religious community activity is a wonderful step - volunteer at the library, clean up local parks or roadways, share a skill... Finally you can show love for your neighbor without strings attached....just being a good human being! This is a very difficult thing to do if you've been raised as a JW. We are trained to be judgemental and suspicious. Good for you!
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  14

  College Degree Required

  by respectful_observer in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i don't anticipate seeing this article, or its supporting data, referenced in any wt publications anytime soon.... ....................................... http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/20/business/college-degree-required-by-increasing-number-of-companies.html?hpw&_r=0.

  a few excerpts:.

  the college degree is becoming the new high school diploma: the new minimum requirement, albeit an expensive one, for getting even the lowest-level job.. like other employers across the country, the firm hires only people with a bachelors degree, even for jobs that do not require college-level skills.

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  gingerbread

  Apognophos - If you still attend meetings (or choose to remember them), really listen to the comments made during a meeting. Folks in their 50's and up emotionally bemoan the conditions that we have to contend with in "this wicked world." They did things the "right way" and now find themselves without a pot to p#ss in. Because of choosing to do labor intensive work with low pay they find themselves with no savings or emergency fund, no retirement, bills they can barely pay, fighting depression and anxiety.... Sure they want things to come to an end as quickly as possible - to relieve their own pain. Sadly many have become "old people" before their time (look around at a convention). They have sacrificed their happiness and health for a religious organization.

  These well meaning people are our grandparents, parents and siblings. The cycle has to stop!
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  14

  College Degree Required

  by respectful_observer in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i don't anticipate seeing this article, or its supporting data, referenced in any wt publications anytime soon.... ....................................... http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/20/business/college-degree-required-by-increasing-number-of-companies.html?hpw&_r=0.

  a few excerpts:.

  the college degree is becoming the new high school diploma: the new minimum requirement, albeit an expensive one, for getting even the lowest-level job.. like other employers across the country, the firm hires only people with a bachelors degree, even for jobs that do not require college-level skills.

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  gingerbread

  Specialized training, certifications and degrees have become the dividing line between to hire or not to hire in many companies. There is also a direct, statistical relationship between levels of education and earnings. And between levels of education and unemployment numbers.

  Some JW's think that the Society has put itself in a bad economic position by not encouraging higher education. I disagree. Persons of lower income brackets (and in most third world countries) historically give all of their surplus income to "the church." The Society also knows that knowledge is power and they want to control the education level of the faithful. The JW's (myself included) that decided to go against the "direction" of the WT and earn degrees find a sense of freedom. We make more money than we need to live on, enjoy vacations and hobbies, plan for retirement & stay out of debt.
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  26

  Why do witnesses need the title of pioneer to get 30 hours?

  by BU2B in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  if witnesses believe that we truly are in the end of the end of the last days, and they believe the work they do will really save lives, and most can just make a few adjustments and get 30 hours, why dont they do this more often??

  without the title?.

  to me if you really care about people you would not wait until you have a special title or badge to wear of look at me im pioneering, you would do the most you can every month and not care about recognition from men.

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  gingerbread

  This organization is all about numbers and titles. It has been from it's "humble" beginnings - around 1919, 2nd president of the Society - J.F. Rutherford - began to require weekly time reports from the "publishers." It's why we have a yearbook and experiences at the assemblies.

  It would seem that if all of the JW's really believed that Armageddon is going to happen any day now, we would be going crazy warning everyone all of the time! It's "lip service" that most commit to doing - meet for field service, make a call, break for coffee, work a street or two, hit a yard sale, make a quick return visit, meet back at the hall, smile and compliment each other, share an experience, take off the tie before leaving the parking lot, get out of the suit/dress asap.

  Duty done!
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  2

  Does fear of military service motivate baptisms?

  by gingerbread in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  as i approached the post office just before my 18th birthday to register for the selective service, i was scared to death.

  i was registering for "the draft.

  " i'd heard all the stories of young witness men being brought before registration boards to justify their neutrality stand.

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  gingerbread

  As I approached the Post Office just before my 18th birthday to register for the Selective Service, I was scared to death. I was registering for "the draft." I'd heard all the stories of young witness men being brought before registration boards to justify their neutrality stand. I also knew of brothers who came of age during the Vietnam war who jumped right into full time pioneering. If these guys had a Dad as an elder, they were in a good position because strings could be pulled to get them into Bethel....avoiding a jail term. When I turned 16, I began to save a copy of all of my monthly service reports (it was advised) to prove - if and when a future war and draft might begin - that I was a regular volunteer in religious service. I even kept my talk outlines in a notebook. I remember being glad that I was baptized the year before. All of this would be good evidence to present to the draft board! Looking back on it now I realize that we young guys were filled with fear that really strenthened a persecution complex.

  I think this fear was one of the main reasons I decided to get dunked...
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  18

  Has anyone ever used this to refute a JW's thinking?

  by nolongerconfused in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this is not "apostate" literature per say...this is straight from one of their books...bible teach book.

  baptism and your relationship with god.

  paragraph 24.

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  gingerbread

  Most JW's will freely say "Of course you don't dedicate yourself to an organization. You dedicate yourself to Jehovah and to doing his will."

  AND...." You must admit that Jehovah is now using this organization to do his will on earth. It's not perfect, but it's the best we have." Followed by examples of how people in ancient history remained faithful to God dispite an imperfect ruling system (kings) or religious structure (pharisees / priests). And how the current organization has gone through periods of enlightenment, better understanding and "sifting" of its members.

  If she brings this question to other witnesses or to an elder, they will shoot the argument down in a heart beat! Just be patient.
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  85

  Will you attend the Memorial this year? Why? Why not?

  by Open mind in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  .

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  om.

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  gingerbread

  Yes. We are in the middle of a deliberate fade and currently attend only Sunday meetings. We have parents in the cong who are in their 70's / 80's and we don't want to pile unnecessary stress on them. We were raised in this religion with a lot of extended family firmly "in".

  This year is just not the right time for us....

  And, I'm interested in hearing the "significant changes" to the memorial talk. Thank you Atlantis!
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  31

  Is there a 'third' way to leave?

  by Splash in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  once baptised, apart from death there are really just two ways to leave the congregation: df or da.. but notice this quote:.

  "does he really desire to disassociate himself, or does he simply no longer want to associate actively with the congregation?".

  - shepherd the flock of god (2010) p. 111. .

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  gingerbread

  After reading the Bible by itself and doing a thorough examination of WT history (this will take time), I've found that a slow fade will reduce the personal damage / pain. Become irregular in meeting attendance. Become irregular in field service (this will raise concern from family, "the friends" and elders). This is a good time to start the "excuses" that are often mentioned on this board. Skip assembly and convention days. Stop field service (the heat will intensify!). Last ditch efforts will be made to bring you back into activity. Expect elders (and others) to become aggressive, tackless, rude, sarcastic and patronizing. You will find out at this point who in your family and others in the in congregation truly care about you - as a person and not as a JW. The brainwashed will shun you. On the upside, because you've avoided the final consequences of the DF/DA many will treat you just fine - even secretly wishing they could do the same.

  During the process, watch what you say and fade smart!
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  45

  Deteriorating content of the WT

  by His Excellency in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  has anyone noticed the recent deterioration in the quality of wt's contents lately?..

  the spiritual food seems to be getting more and more shitty these days.

  i have given a thought to what could really be going wrong, and if it is likely that some on the wiriting committee is consciously dishing out those nonsense to facilitate more poeple seeing ttat.

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  gingerbread

  Maybe the writing department has had a flash of "New Light"..... no one (not even the faithful) is taking the time to read the articles.

  The mags used to be structured in a "Readers Digest" format.

  Now they're just Cliff Notes for the Bible.