Posts by Rattigan350

22

The Rapture

by Sea Breeze in

when i was pioneering, i don't remember ever addressing the rapture question.

does anyone know how a jw would respond to this verse?

for the lord himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of god.

Rattigan350

"However, the faithful anointed still on earth will be gathered together instantly."

I don't know that that is necessarily true.

They still have to die to be raised.

22

The Rapture

by Sea Breeze in

when i was pioneering, i don't remember ever addressing the rapture question.

does anyone know how a jw would respond to this verse?

for the lord himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of god.

Rattigan350

pronger1 "Paul used the symbolism of the Roman adventus in having Jesus return to Earth"

No one believed that Jesus would return to the earth. Because Jesus never said he would.

It's this simple:

John 14:2-4 " In the house of my Father are many dwelling places. Otherwise, I would have told you, for I am going my way to prepare a place for you. Also, if I go my way and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will receive you home to myself, so that where I am you also may be. And where I am going, you know the way.”"

Jesus here said he will come again. but to receive them to himself. His coming is by his resurrecting them.

Paul said that there would be a heavenly Jerusalem. The king would rule from heaven. That way the enemies can't touch him.

However, we can't follow what Paul or Jesus said as that is old light. They didn't have the Revelation.

22

The Rapture

by Sea Breeze in

when i was pioneering, i don't remember ever addressing the rapture question.

does anyone know how a jw would respond to this verse?

for the lord himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of god.

Rattigan350

Rapture is a misunderstanding of what Paul said.

People believe that Jesus will return and then the Christians will disappear and then go to heaven.

Such is not a Biblical teaching. Another popular belief that is not thought out.

1 Thess 4:14 "faith that Jesus died and rose again, so too God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep in death through Jesus."

Since Pentecost Christian became anointed with holy spirit and Paul explains that when they die and they sleep in death.

Paul didn't know that would be limited to 144,000 as that number was not given until Revelation.

Then the events of Rev 12 occurred in 1914 and Jesus cleansed the heavens by casting Satan and his demons out. That fulfills John 14:2,3

"In the house of my Father are many abodes. Otherwise, I would have told you, for I am going my way to prepare a place for you if I go my way and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will receive you home to myself, so that where I am you also may be." This right here is what Jesus meant when he said he is coming again. He is not coming to the earth, he is coming to has apostles by resurrecting them to him.

That is what Paul meant by 1 Thess 4:15 "For this is what we tell you by the word of the Lord, that we the living who survive to the presence of the Lord will in no way precede those who have fallen asleep in death;"

16 "because the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel’s voice and with God’s trumpet, and those who are dead in union with Christ will rise first. (Actually they don't rise, he

should have said they will be raised first)

The ones who are dead in Christ (anointed ones who have died) were resurrected at that time.

Then after that time, when anointed Christians die, they immediately get raised to heaven and not sleep in death.
It's that simple, sleep in death vs no sleep in death.

v 17 "Afterward we the living who are surviving will, together with them, be caught away in clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and thus we will always be with the Lord."

That is where the rapture gets it wrong. They have to die first. He also explains that here:

1 Cor 15:50 "Now I say this, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the corruptible inherit the incorruptible."

51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we will be changed."

Also, Paul is not one to listen to about details about future events. He was not a prophet. He

talks in fancy language. "in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet." Where did he get this?

He didn't know anything about trumpets. Trumpets were not in play until Revelation.

"be caught away in clouds to meet the Lord in the air;" More fancy talk. Where did he get that from?

Jesus' ascension when he rose to the air? Paul should know that Jesus is not in the air, he is a spirit

being.

As of right now (or rather 1995) all of the 144,000 have been anointed and sealed. There is just a handful that

have not been raised to heavenly life.

43

Members of congregation know it’s not true

by Mikejw in

we have lonely old folks and even some not so old.. they know the gb are not who they claim to be.. but they stay in the congregation because they are lonely.

i wonder what percentage of jws this is the case, i would guess a lot.

.

Rattigan350

"they know the GB are not who they claim to be.but they stay in the congregation because they are lonely"

Who does the GB claim to be?

And what the that claim have to do with the people staying in the congregation?

25

Would there, or would there not be, lawsuits if they took away the blood transfusion ban?

by VerdadTJ2 in

jw
friends

i have heard or read, many times by many exjw's, that the org does not remove the blood transfusion ban because it would be crippled by the resulting lawsuits the minute that "new light" was made official.i am not a lawyer, but i would like to know what legal opinion lawyers have on that.on what legal basis would there be a lawsuit?

"i am suing the watchtower because my relative died because of a rule they had but no longer have"?am i missing something?.

Rattigan350

They have the no blood transfusion rule because they have, going back to Knorr and Franz, this philosophy that they need to obey God's rules to please God.

In other words, they are pharisees in that they want to say that we are better than everyone else because we obey these rules. That's what everything is about, getting God's approval because JWs are better than everyone else.

And they feel that we have to do everything to get that approval to get life.

But they don't consider the question of How can it be a law if there are not consequences for breaking it?

People who take blood or give it continue living and then die like everyone else. So they say they won't get a resurrection. The dead are conscious of nothing, so they dead don't worry about not getting a resurrection. But yet is that something that will land someone in Gehenna? No. Because idolatry and fornication won't either.

14

Key Criticisms of the Organization

by Vanderhoven7 in

just picked this summary up.

"some of the key criticisms that have been raised about the jehovah's witness organization include:.

strict control and authoritarianism: the organization is highly centralized, with major decisions being made by the governing body.

Rattigan350

This guy has a beard so that makes him someone that I wouldn't even listen to. Get your presentation right first by getting the look right.

Also, why aren't these issues being taken care of properly and enmass?

14

Key Criticisms of the Organization

by Vanderhoven7 in

just picked this summary up.

"some of the key criticisms that have been raised about the jehovah's witness organization include:.

strict control and authoritarianism: the organization is highly centralized, with major decisions being made by the governing body.

Rattigan350

There have been no failed prophesies as there have been no prophesies.

35

Hey, Regarding the "Resurrection" thing and the WT denial of the Mt 27:51-53 incident...

by FragrantAddendum in

so according to bible.

elisha's bones were there when jehovah resurrected some other dude.

jesus could heal from a distance by power of god.

Rattigan350

Jesus' death caused an earthquake, not a resurrection.

There is no point in having a resurrection there.

People need to stop reading that text at face value and just THINK. Think with the brain.

What would be the point of a resurrection at that time?

There is none. None at all.
And then what happened with those people?

The Watchtower's explanation is the only one that makes sense.

46

August WT: DF'ing renamed "Removed." AKA: GB re-arranging the deck chairs on the Titanic

by WingCommander in

jw
friends

so: the mystery has been clarified as to more "new light" / clarifications of decades old doctrine and procedure.

august watchtower has finally been leaked.

disfellowshipping?

Rattigan350

"I was really hoping for the lifting of the ban on oral sex. I really was."

There is no ban on oral sex. One time they stated that it is unnatural under Paul's writings but remember Paul is not our boss. Why should we care what he said?

19

So a JW can date an unbelieving person...

by silentbuddha in

but the entire congregation is not to be informed or mark the person.

the only repercussions are that the individual who is aware of it can decide to "mark" them and not go to the local club or bar with the individual, but they are still obligated to go door to door in the ministry with them, and even speak to them at the kn as if nothing is wrong and not feel obligated to tell anyone else?

this is crazy.. so they are also basically saying that a person can carry on a romantic (but none sexual) relationship with an unbeliever and still go out in service and participate in meetings?

Rattigan350

And on this subject.

People should marry whoever makes them happy, not because of a religious affiliation.